umm.....having just this moment re-asked my questions, I've reminded myself that my "issue" here is what effect, if any, enrollment in the 8th grade accelerated course has on high school course enrolllment

I've had it

We are never given any information at all about how lower-level decisions concerning our children's education - to which we are not privy - affect downstream decisions

never

that's not putting it too strongly

this goes back to Christopher's placement in Phase 3 math back in 3rd grade, a placement that would have prevented his taking calculus in high school

we were never told that the Phase 3 placement would have ramifications for what he could or could not study in high school

-- CatherineJohnson - 21 Jun 2006

Susan

.....turning this over in my mind.....it strikes me you're right

and it's not just math we have to work so hard on

we're going to have to put major time & effort into teaching writing

-- CatherineJohnson - 19 Jun 2006

Hi, Verghis!

good lord

I didn't even notice the "contacting myself"

I was more riveted by the fact that his spelling is quite good

I am now DETERMINED that Christopher will learn to spell AT LEAST AS WELL as his guidance counselor

-- CatherineJohnson - 19 Jun 2006

What I find refreshing is I do not see them adopting a subservient tone with the teacher. There is deep respect. But there is a sense that the teacher should be working hard for them on behalf of their child in question.

Korean parents are known universally as the Hard Cases of Asian parents.....they're the turbo parents.

So this doesn't surprise me.

-- CatherineJohnson - 19 Jun 2006

To overhear their conversation with a teacher is like watching them buying a Mercedes Benz, and they are driving a hard bargain.

They approach school, and their relationship to the teacher, as though it is a huge investment.

How do the conversations go?

What kinds of things do they discuss?

-- CatherineJohnson - 19 Jun 2006

Hi, Susan!

So unless the 8th grade science teacher happens to be a real scientist who's switched careers for some reason, I would opt for spending the time on acquiring an in-depth understanding of mathematics.

That's probably good advice.

I've been operating on this principle so far. We've paid almost no attention to the science course this year (in part because one of the best teachers in the school was teaching it...)

Also, based on 4 years of teaching regular and advanced placement high school chemistry and introductory college chemistry, I am absolutely sure that a good understanding of mathematics is the key to understanding science.

EVERY SINGLE STUDY & SERIOUS OPINION PIECE I'VE READ SAYS EXACTLY THIS.

I wonder if I can remember the study predicting student success in college science (I posted it on ktm...)

This is a major, ongoing, longitudinal study, and what they're finding is that math is the predictor.

Students who've taken a serious lab course in high school also did better in college science.

But unless you had a very good lab course, no science courses in K-12 predicted success in science in college.

It's all about the math.

-- CatherineJohnson - 19 Jun 2006

At conference time and for school functions, Mom and Dad both show up, always. And they are always dressed in their best clothes.

That was a Moment for me at KUMON.

Both parents there, dressed to the nines.

PATENT LEATHER SHOES!

-- CatherineJohnson - 19 Jun 2006

"The appeals process would consist of contacting myself..."

Really? "Myself"" and not "me"?

I be just a humble 3rd-worlder, but this seemeth wrong!

-- VerghisKoshi - 17 Jun 2006

I have some thoughts on 8th grade science based on my own experience.

I graduated from high school in 1958 which was back when watered-down "general" science was not taught every year. The first science course I had was biology in my sophomore year. I instantly decided to become a chemist when I encountered chemistry my junior year in high school. The reason for this decision was that I was so thrilled to discover something really truly new at an age when I could somewhat appreciate it.

Also, based on 4 years of teaching regular and advanced placement high school chemistry and introductory college chemistry, I am absolutely sure that a good understanding of mathematics is the key to understanding science.

So unless the 8th grade science teacher happens to a real scientist who's switched careers for some reason, I would opt for spending the time on acquiring an in-depth understanding of mathematics.

-- SusanJ - 17 Jun 2006

anecdotally... based on observation, not interviews with Korean parents

At conference time and for school functions, Mom and Dad both show up, always. And they are always dressed in their best clothes.

To overhear their conversation with a teacher is like watching them buying a Mercedes Benz, and they are driving a hard bargain.

They approach school, and their relationship to the teacher, as though it is a huge investment.

They are correct! It is a huge investment!

What I find refreshing is I do not see them adopting a subservient manner with the teacher. And they understand the power of showing up together, always.

-- BeckyC - 17 Jun 2006

I find it astounding that a person who is being paid to do a job can actually say, out loud, "We can't."

-- CatherineJohnson - 17 Jun 2006

I have to say, no one here has yet suggested that effort and commitment be rewarded (not true at the high school, where effort and commitment probably are rewarded).

And no one - not one soul - has ever remotely suggested that our kids should be prepared to compete with Asian kids.

Exactly the opposite, in fact.

apples & oranges!

-- CatherineJohnson - 17 Jun 2006

hey!

what are they like!?

I don't think I've seen Korean parents specifically....though we have many Asian foreign nationals. I believe we have a large number of IBM employees from Japan, as well as quite a few immigrants from Communist China.

-- CatherineJohnson - 17 Jun 2006

"Absolutely. Effort and commitment will be rewarded."

"But that would be cheating! How can we stage a fair fight... how can we measure a child's innate ability, if parents are putting their thumb on the scale?"

It goes without saying we’ll give Christopher whatever support he may need in the form of help with homework, extra time on task, or tutoring. Christopher is willing to work hard, and we are willing to work hard. Effort and commitment should be rewarded.

"But that would be cheating! How can we stage a fair fight... how can we measure a child's innate ability, if parents are putting their thumb on the scale?"

heh heh.

Catherine, I must say, you have the energy of not one, but TWO korean parents! and I have seen them in action at my school...

-- BeckyC - 17 Jun 2006

news from nowhere part 14

Remember Don't study for the state test?

Remember back when every single teacher in the school told Christopher and his chums not to study for the state test because they didn't know what would be on it? (pdf file, p 67-61)

Well, guess what.

The results of the state test are used for placement in 8th grade accelerated science.

Who knew?

No one! We weren't told! We're never told! Information bearing on our children's education is data, and data is used by folks in the administration to make decisions about our children's futures!

So they're the ones who need it!

Because they're the deciders.





email to the guidance counselor

Wednesday June 14 2:26 pm

Hi Griffin----

We’d like to get the results of Christopher’s assessments in the fall and again this spring---thanks!

Also, we’d like to know what Christopher needs to do to qualify to be placed in Honors Science in 8th grade.

Could you let us know?

Thanks very much.

Catherine Johnson
(Chris Berenson’s mom)