602 math in Scarsdale

-- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2006

WAIT

what am I saying?

I'm trying to account for the ridiculously low Scarsdale math score, not the verbal score

It's gotta be TRAILBLAZERS K-5

-- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2006

although....I'm trying to think now of the Asian foreign national population in Scarsdale....Ed thinks the Scarsdale kids getting into Ivies have been Asian (I remember his saying that the Scarsdale admits couldn't all be legacies because some of them were Asian)...

-- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2006

now it's possible that our math program has been vastly better than our ELA program - which is, on one reading, people's perception around here

I've mentioned that I learned belatedly that what parents were really distressed about is reading & writing, not math

Actually, that can't explain it

It's entirely possible that Irvington's ELA has lagged math

But Scarsdale's math is wildly lagging its ELA

Thirty points is a significant gap

-- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2006

there's something major going on here

their math scores should not be with ours, given how much higher their verbal scores are

Ed says that never happens (I think Michele Hernandez says the same thing)

At NYU you see math scores above verbal; their math scores are way lower

-- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2006

wow, that's interesting

we go (or went - Christopher is a drop-out and I'm on hiatus) to the one in Hartsdale (I think it's Hartsdale - the one on Central Ave)

-- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2006

Where's the one in Scarsdale??

The Kumon franchise in Scarsdale seemed to be doing a healthy business last time I was there. Next month I plan to enroll my daughter and I’ll probably learn more about their clientele. Where's the one in Scarsdale??

http://center.ikumon.com/showpage.aspx?url=90226

There are eight Kumon centers within five miles of Scarsdale.

-- TexasDesert - 07 Dec 2006

yeah.....

In context, that statement sounds like a "turned your water off" kind of thing.

-- CatherineJohnson - 07 Dec 2006

OK, this is why administrators are scared of Scarsdale parents:

Scarsdale students skip class to protest tests

May 3, 2001
Web posted at: 4:25 PM EDT (2025 GMT)

SCARSDALE, New York (AP) -- Dozens of eighth-graders boycotted a state science exam with their parents' blessing Thursday in this well-to-do community of doctors, corporate executives and other high-achievers.

Organizers of the boycott in this New York City suburb said two-thirds of the 295-student class skipped the test to protest standardized exams and the increasing amount of classroom time spent preparing for them.

"Our main objective has been accomplished," said Deborah Rapaport, one of the parent organizers.

Scarsdale has one of the nation's top-ranked school districts.

The boycott is part of a nationwide movement against the tests. Critics say test preparation is interfering with the curriculum and costing students in-depth instruction in broader subjects.

Teachers and principals are increasingly being evaluated on how well their students perform on the exams. All states now require students to take math and reading tests in at least two grades, and 38 reward or sanction schools and school districts on the basis of student performance, according to the Education Commission of the States.

Defenders of annual testing say it gives schools valuable information about students' strengths and weaknesses. President Bush has proposed linking federal school funding to test results.

The parents in Scarsdale actually have the support of most school officials, who feel their community was doing fine educating its children before the tests came along in recent years.

Superintendent Michael McGill^? told parents recently that rather than "teaching to the tests," Scarsdale should go back to a middle school curriculum that emphasizes projects, labs, research and discussion -- even if it means lower test scores.

The boycott had elements of a military operation. Since school officials had declared that any eighth-graders who were in the building would have to take the exam, parents took turns ferrying children to and from school as each class took the test.

The windows of some cars displayed miniature "STOP" signs, an acronym for State Testing Opposed by Parents.

"We're driving them out of the school and bringing them home or to a house where there's a baby sitter," Rapaport said. "It's a rather complex operation"

Copyright 2001 The Associated Press.

-- CatherineJohnson - 07 Dec 2006

Robyn

Yes!

Me, too!

Where Daniel-Craig-James-Bond is concerned, I am a visual learner!

-- CatherineJohnson - 07 Dec 2006

The Kumon franchise in Scarsdale seemed to be doing a healthy business last time I was there. Next month I plan to enroll my daughter and I’ll probably learn more about their clientele.

Where's the one in Scarsdale??

-- CatherineJohnson - 07 Dec 2006

That's actually an excellent line to have - THANKS.

Here we have the superintendent of Scarsdale schools saying that constructivist pedagogy produces lower test scores.

Interesting.

I wonder if he said this to get parents off his back?

It's possible.

If I wanted to get parents who were furiously angry about crappy state tests off my back I might offer to do a lot of project classes and have their kids scores down - !

-- CatherineJohnson - 07 Dec 2006

And let us remember that this man is Superintendent of the Year.

-- CatherineJohnson - 07 Dec 2006

Superintendent Michael McGill^?? told parents recently that rather than "teaching to the tests," Scarsdale should go back to a middle school curriculum that emphasizes projects, labs, research and discussion -- even if it means lower test scores.

ooooooo.....

that's not good

Scarsdale has a HUGE group of anti-testing parents

I'm not sure how that group intersects with the five gazillion parents who went to law school and med school.

(seriously - I don't mean this ironically)

-- CatherineJohnson - 07 Dec 2006

It seems what they were saying was that parents cannot expect a school to do all the heavy lifting, the parents have to do their part. Because that’s how it’s done at the top schools.

It's always worse than you think.

-- CatherineJohnson - 07 Dec 2006

Thanks for the Bond photo.

My learning style is "visual." I need to see pretty pictures in order to retain what I've learned about test data.

-- RobynW - 07 Dec 2006

I seem to remember some remarks at one of our BOE meetings explaining how some surrounding schools do so well because of “outside help” or some other words to that effect.

now that is very interesting - the fact that BOE's perceive this to be the case is good....

I wonder if it works in both directions. I suspect its a unidirectional admission; i.e., when our kids get top scores it's because of our exemplary curriculum and teachers, when someone else's kids get top scores, they use tutors.

-- LynnGuelzow - 07 Dec 2006

I'd like to know how they've gotten their verbal scores as high as they have - if tutors are doing it, what are the tutors doing?

The Kumon franchise in Scarsdale seemed to be doing a healthy business last time I was there. Next month I plan to enroll my daughter and I’ll probably learn more about their clientele.

-- TexasDesert - 07 Dec 2006

“now that is very interesting - the fact that BOE's perceive this to be the case is good.... “

I don’t know about that. It seems that what they were saying was that parents cannot expect a school to do all the heavy lifting, the parents have to do their part. Because that’s how it’s done at the top schools.

“Superintendent Michael McGill^? told parents recently that rather than "teaching to the tests," Scarsdale should go back to a middle school curriculum that emphasizes projects, labs, research and discussion -- even if it means lower test scores. “

[CNN.com - Scarsdale students skip class to protest tests - May 3, 2001]

The school can handle the “projects, labs, research and discussion”. That leaves the parents to handle the tests.

-- TexasDesert - 07 Dec 2006

I'd like to know how they've gotten their verbal scores as high as they have - if tutors are doing it, what are the tutors doing?

-- CatherineJohnson - 06 Dec 2006

I seem to remember some remarks at one of our BOE meetings explaining how some surrounding schools do so well because of “outside help” or some other words to that effect.

now that is very interesting - the fact that BOE's perceive this to be the case is good....

-- CatherineJohnson - 06 Dec 2006

I seem to remember some remarks at one of our BOE meetings explaining how some surrounding schools do so well because of “outside help” or some other words to that effect.

You're here in Westchester, right?

This may be the central "Westchester issue": shadow schools.

I mentioned this in another comment. A mom here told me yesterday that she'd hired many, many tutors over the years. She couldn't even remember how many offhand.

-- CatherineJohnson - 05 Dec 2006

I do remember reading about how Scarsdale parents were protesting standardized tests a few years ago. I think it was state tests, but I don’t remember.

Yes, the Scarsdale parents have been very hostile to tests - especially their PTSA, I believe. (not fact-checked)

However, I don't have the sense that they've kept up a boycott of the tests year after year.

Also, I think it would be unlikely that parents of high-scoring kids would keep up a boycott.

-- CatherineJohnson - 05 Dec 2006

Actually, now that I think about it, I seem to remember some remarks at one of our BOE meetings explaining how some surrounding schools do so well because of “outside help” or some other words to that effect.

Outside help, intensive parent and/or nanny tutoring (I’ve observed nanny-tutoring at the local community center), high-priced classes and tutors, etc. That’s what it takes to be world-class (uh, according to the 75th percentile world-class definition) in our top schools. Takes the pressure off the schools.

-- TexasDesert - 05 Dec 2006

Wow, this is all very interesting!

I’m going to go check my school district and others.

I do remember reading about how Scarsdale parents were protesting standardized tests a few years ago. I think it was state tests, but I don’t remember. In fact, I seem to remember many were boycotting tests. I’ll check.

My district is right next door to Scarsdale, and there’s always the unspoken opinion that we aspire to do as well as Scarsdale. Without all the dysfunction and obsession, and I guess all the TUTORING!

Again, very interesting . . .

-- TexasDesert - 05 Dec 2006

Scarsdale speaks

I know I've mentioned before that Irvington has a Scarsdale complex.

What Scarsdale does, we do.

Thus: if Scarsdale selects and implements Math TRAILBLAZERS, we select and implement Math TRAILBLAZERS. [ed.: that's a joke]

I can't for the life of me think why this would be, unless it has something to do with the fact that Scarsdale's SAT scores are a teensy bit higher than ours:

• Scarsdale 2005: 1251 Combined / 611 Math / 640 Verbal