I forgot, there was a third attempt to promote positive change. Apparently, I am slow learner.

I found out that, due to scheduling problems at the high school, the administrators were proposing to cut the lab time from Honors chemistry and Honors physics courses. Several parents and I again researched the problem. We called at least a dozen comparable school systems and found that Granby would have kids spend the least amount of time in physics and chemistry class than any other town. I interviewed the high school teachers and found that they were against the change. I wrote articles for the local newspaper. We pointed out that some kids have 2 and even 3 study halls per day. Cutting class time further made no sense. We attempted to figure out other solutions to their scheduling problems, but they really weren't interested in that.

This failure was weird, because we couldn't figure out why they thought it was a good idea. Finally, we discovered that the root of the problem was probably professional jealous -- because of the extra lab time for chem & physics teachers, they tended to get paid a little more based on the pay scale. Despite wide spread parental opposition and no justifiable basis, the board approved the cut in the labs.

These experiences probably explain why I am so cynical of the education establishment.

-- LynnGuelzow - 10 Dec 2006

I've been involved in 2 parent groups, both highly motivated and dedicated. Both failed miserably.

What did you work on?

Why did you fail?

I'm behind on reading these posts. I failed miserably in my initial attempt (now 5 years ago) to stop EM from getting into the schools. Actually, at that point I didn't know enough to really try to stop it. I was trying to get the Board to slow down and carefully review the cons of the program (not just the pros) before implementing. We used e-mail and mail box flyers and got over 200 people to attend a board meeting (normally no one is there ever). The Board refused to consider the contrary evidence, which was considerable, given the short time frame that we were dealing with.

The 2nd, more organized, failed attempt was to keep the gifted program alive. It was eliminated. Then we got even more organized, got a name, letterhead (SHARP, Supporters of Higher Academic Responsibility and Program). We did tons of research, wrote papers, met with administrators and got absolutely nowhere. In the end, we kept paring down our requests, trying to get any improvement at all, no matter how incremental, to no avail. We asked for greater in school and after school "enrichment." We wanted clustering -- grouping kids by ranges -- at least one or two upper middle to superior classrooms. A critical mass of 5 to 7 gifted kids in a class and no singletons (so they have a chance of meeting peers). We wanted a formal acceleration policy. We wanted identified kids to be able to take off-level state test (one grade up). We got absolutely nothing. It was so frustrating. The worst was that with the effort and resources that went into it, we never got even a response from the administrators. They thanked us, they admired the work, the promised to review it, but nothing was ever done.

-- LynnGuelzow - 10 Dec 2006

I bet you guys get a new, much better curriculum.

There really is no excuse for using Everyday Math in a private school (apart from the fact that private schools have traditionally been the "cutting edge" location of progressive ed!)

-- CatherineJohnson - 10 Dec 2006

"Why are they choosing a new curriculum?"

Perhaps a critical mass was reached between harping parents and teachers who didn't like having kids come into their classes not knowing what they should already know. There are factions because I still hear words like understanding, rote, and balance. If they keep the harping parents out of the actual discussion and decision, the critical mass might be lost.

But, like many decisions in large corporations, it will problably come down to what "Mr. Big" wants. Mr. Big wants a (private) school that's in demand, so I have been pushing the fact that parents send their kids to the school NOT for "joy and respect", but for the good academics that they can't get in public schools. If he hears enough parents (who pay the bills) say they want a change in the math curriculum, then Mr. Big might get it through his head that providing what parents want might increase demand. Duh!

-- SteveH - 10 Dec 2006

They will be moving away from Everyday Math to either Saxon or Sadlier-Oxford "Progress in Mathematics". Apparently, Singapore Math is not on the list of choices. I'm not sure why. At least both of the choices meet California standards. I prefer Saxon, and just the name will send a clear message to parents and other schools.

wow!

That's very exciting!

The Center for Education Reform loves the Sadlier-Oxford program. Apparently some of the CA people (or the Mathematically Correct people - I've forgotten) think it's better than Saxon.

Why are they choosing a new curriculum?

-- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2006

how to teach math facts

-- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2006

Main Street School sent out a chirpy newsletter - all our newsletters are chirpy - about the many topics the kids are "exploring" and "being introduced to" in TRAILBLAZERS.

Then it said that they were sending home the TRAILBLAZERS triangular flash cards and the kids should store them some place where they could always find them (this is the parents' job, obviously) and the kids should use them to "learn" their math facts.

The newsletter put it like this:

"learn (memorize)"

They actually used the word "memorize" in the newsletter.

I doubt a single parent complained.

Naturally that sparked a string of helpful email posts from me on how to help your child memorize math facts on the listserv.

I actually have to stop myself thinking how much these folks must loathe me by now.

Of course, I also have my secret admirers.

-- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2006

Obviously, this is not homework that a 6 year old can be expected to accomplish on her own. (Oh, this is math homework, thank you EM). If you've ever looked closely at the dime, you'll notice that it doesn't actually have the president's name on it. If you don't know that it is Roosevelt on the dime, then the instructions to parents tells you who it is. Nonetheless, we parents dutifully tell our kids that it is Roosevelt and help them spell it out for their 1st grade homework.

After a year of this, how many parents are going to be surprised when they discover that their help is still needed every year after this?

That is really outrageous.

I had no idea.

-- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2006

School choice is another method, but it may take a long time before there is real choice.

I just read a cool statistic about Clinton & charters - I think when he came into office there were....200 charters in the country?

I'll look it up.

No - there was one!

How would you assess President Clinton's legacy on education?

I think that Clinton's education legacy as President is four-fold. First, he incorporated standards and accountability into federal policy to a degree that was unprecedented.

Second, by supporting public school choice and charter schools, he helped expand these ideas and get Democrats to embrace some progressive modernizing reforms. There was only one charter school when President Clinton was elected in 1992, but more than 2000 when he left office.

Third, his commitment to increasing the federal investment in education, and the fiscal policies he pursued to make that investment possible, mean that federal resources are now leveraging greater change than in the past.

Finally, because he vigorously defended the federal government's role in education at a time when it was under sharp attack, he really set up the education debate we re having now. Instead of arguing about whether or nor there should be a national presence in education, we are debating what that role should be. </blockquote?

interview, Andrew Rotherham

-- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2006

We didn't start in with the heavy-duty reteaching until Christopher was in 4th grade.

9 years old, I guess

We wouldn't have started then if we'd had a different teacher (this was the very nice young teacher who didn't get tenure - in this case the problem was the teacher, not the curriculum)

-- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2006

That's a very, very high figure.

It usually takes a few years before parents realize their kids need tutoring.

We're talking about 5 year olds here.

-- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2006

In Brookline, Massachusetts, which has used Reform Math programs Innovations and MathScape^?, 26 percent of students aged five to ten get outside tutoring, according to a school-system report.

Down for the Count? ($) The misbegotten curriculum known as Reform Math is a failure that may finally be on the way out.
by Melana Zyla Vickers
11/06/2006, Volume 012, Issue 08

-- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2006

The Weekly Standard reports that Brookline, Massachusetts uses a reform math program. 26% of children between ages five and ten get outside tutoring. (November 6, 2006 issue).

Is this the recent article on reform math?

I'll get it.

-- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2006

I would now be logging in a huge amount of nagging time.

-- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2006

We need to do a time-diary study with parents logging in every 5 minutes...

-- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2006

Is there any data on tutors and reteaching ... anywhere? Has anybody ever compared rates of tutoring to see if it goes up with reform math?

ok, let's see

A Congressman in .... Washington state (?) made them do a study (I probably have the link)...

I'm trying to rustle up the same data, assuming it exists.

-- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2006

As new people move in, census data consistently shows our town growing "richer." If we controlled for these new, wealthier kids, we might not have such impressive results.

We have the same thing and people say so openly.

Parents who've lived here awhile will tell you "the school is improving," "the scores are higher, because wealthier people have moved in."

Everyone believes this.

Everyone believes that if the scores are higher because wealthier people have moved in, that means the school is better.

Of course, in a way that's correct, since school quality is heavily dependent on peer quality when you don't have a good curriculum.

-- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2006

ITBS costs $36 to administer.

I did have to get myself qualified as an administrator; I had to have a B.A. for that, and had to submit my transcript (another $10, I think).

Then I paid for overnight express....I've probably spent something like $60 all told.

Next year it will be just the $40.

-- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2006

I think another possible creative solution would be simply to give your child whatever good practice tests there are out there each year (either from online, or from practice books).

I think the three states that are supposed to have good state standards are CA, MA, and IN.

I suspect you could gain quite a lot of info using their tests and/or the test prep books.

I also bought an ISEE prep book with sample tests.

The ISEE is the test private schools use, and I believe it's probably more advanced than public school tests.

Haven't really looked at it yet.

I'm thinking that a makeshift annual test would be simply to choose one of these things, then stick with it year to year.

-- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2006

Jen

Just read your entire comment - I agree with the whole thing.

You should take a look at our "state standards" (actually, it won't improve your day, so don't); the whole project is ludicrous.

We have skill-and-process standards; when a skill is too specific - i.e. it's something a parent could understand - we have standards like "understand" and "appreciate."

There's no way a parent (or a teacher, I'll wager) can comprehend these standards, and there's no way a parent (or a teacher?) can comprehend whether a state test that "tests" these standards has anything to tell them.

ITBS for us. From now on.

-- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2006

a Parent Organization (no teachers, or baking cookies, allowed)

Bronxdale has one

They purposely worked outside the PTSA & never met in any school buildings

So far they've managed to get foreign language instruction in the school

We may be (finally) forming one....

I hope

-- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2006

If your kid is scoring in the "advanced" level every year, you really have no idea how much they've learned or if they're still coasting on material they understood years before.

absolutely

these tests tell me nothing; they tell me less than nothing

they're outrageous

as far as we can tell, the school is furious, too

they have no idea what's going on; they're calling the state to find out what everything means; they've got parents hassling them to find out what happened - it's a nightmare

of course, this is the first year we've had tests

at this point, though, I'd scrap the whole thing and just mandate that the school give a real test (i.e. a longstanding, validated test like ITBS, Stanford 9, etc.)

I'm pretty sure that's what Hirsch advises

The state standards are so stupid, they may as well let the ITBS set the standards

-- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2006

My point about the 2 months of instructional time after the testing is that the kids take that test and feel like they should be done for the year. It's definitely true that at that point the field trips pick up again, etc.

oh!

I see.

Our ELA test is in Jan; then the math test is in March, I believe.

I didn't notice a big drop-off in effort after the tests for that reason, I'm sure.

-- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2006

I've been involved in 2 parent groups, both highly motivated and dedicated. Both failed miserably.

What did you work on?

Why did you fail?

-- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2006

The big problem I see with measuring AYP on one (state) test each year is that every year's test is different enough that I'm not sure you can really tell what was retained from previous years or what the gain really was. I would love to see a state come up with something that was a long-range test, basically one test that covered all 12-13 years. I'm sure they attempt to look at this somehow, but I don't think it's a focus. It would seem useful to start a kid at a section he was comfortable with/scoring well on the year before and see how far they could get after that year's instruction.

If your kid is scoring in the "advanced" level every year, you really have no idea how much they've learned or if they're still coasting on material they understood years before. Similarly, a kid scoring below basic...well, how below? Where are they really, so that you can start there and move them upwards and not just keep adding the next year's more difficult work on top of concepts they don't have from 2 years before.

To have a test that really will provide a measurement of "value added" by a year of school, it's got to have a gradation that can be used by the school/teacher to really get at the high and low ends of scoring.

My point about the 2 months of instructional time after the testing is that the kids take that test and feel like they should be done for the year. It's definitely true that at that point the field trips pick up again, etc. I would guess that the kids' motivation level for learning new hard material and for practicing it is about 70% reduced after the PSSAs (here in PA).

-- JenL - 09 Dec 2006

Finally I found something on tutoring data. The Weekly Standard reports that Brookline, Massachusetts uses a reform math program. 26% of children between ages five and ten get outside tutoring. (November 6, 2006 issue). Apparently, this is based on a school survey.

-- RobynW - 09 Dec 2006

Is there any data on tutors and reteaching ... anywhere? Has anybody ever compared rates of tutoring to see if it goes up with reform math? Supporters of reform math claim there is a mountain of research supporting their programs --- but in this mountain, is there a single study that addresses the issue of tutoring?

This is the HUGE lurking Top Secret issue.

-- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2006

Textbook Evaluator has a good post on asinine EM homework.

-- KDeRosa - 09 Dec 2006

We had the same EM homework about the dime earlier this week too! I just circle the answer in the parent note (tails has a torch, laurel, and oak!) and tell Emily to copy it.

-- KathyIggy - 09 Dec 2006

I agree. The schools are actively training parents to assist with homework, but then deny that parents are reteaching the curriculum at home.

For example, last night I had to help my daughter identify the name of the president that is on a U.S. dime. Obviously, this is not homework that a 6 year old can be expected to accomplish on her own. (Oh, this is math homework, thank you EM). If you've ever looked closely at the dime, you'll notice that it doesn't actually have the president's name on it. If you don't know that it is Roosevelt on the dime, then the instructions to parents tells you who it is. Nonetheless, we parents dutifully tell our kids that it is Roosevelt and help them spell it out for their 1st grade homework.

After a year of this, how many parents are going to be surprised when they discover that their help is still needed every year after this?

I would organize a parent group if I thought it would help. I've been involved in 2 parent groups, both highly motivated and dedicated. Both failed miserably.

-- LynnGuelzow - 08 Dec 2006

"Do you help your child with homework? yes or no * If yes, estimate how much time per week you help your child with homework?"

Boy, I'm cynical.

They want and EXPECT this. That's why we parents get the messages that tell us to work with our kids on things like learning the times table. It's amazing that they don't see what happens when parents can't or won't do the work.

As for tutors, I remember seeing an article that said something about asking your child's teacher about tutors if they are having problems. Schools don't see tutoring as an indication of anything - except that your child needs EXTRA help. They will never see it as an indication that they aren't doing enough or that their curriculum is bad.

We're trying to come up with arguments to get them to change their opinions. We're trying to get them to do what they don't want to do. I think you have to get much more leverage than that. Parents have to really organize - a Parent Organization (no teachers, or baking cookies, allowed). This is the only way to force any change. It won't be pretty and it may not work, especially in time for your own child. School choice is another method, but it may take a long time before there is real choice.

Until then, it's the kitchen table. We just have to help get the new parents off to a running start.

-- SteveH - 07 Dec 2006

I saw that thread. It all comes together eventually.

I would like to see our district take a proactive approach to tutors and reteaching. How about an extremely short questionaire handed out to parents directly at November/December conferences. I'd have 3 questions on it:

* Do you use an outside tutor? yes or no * Do you help your child with homework? yes or no * If yes, estimate how much time per week you help your child with homework?

That would be a start. Ask parents to check the boxes and drop it off anonymously at the door. At least you could start to gather some data. Cheap, easy, just need photocopying and someone to tally.

-- LynnGuelzow - 07 Dec 2006

Our state gives ratings for performance level and improvement.

Our public middle school is "High Performing" and "Improving", but it only offers CMP plus a little bit of algebra for all students in 8th grade.

You can't let the fox guard the hen house.

NCLB allows states to define the standards. Choice allows the parents to define the standards. Perhaps.

As for parental influence, I will see soon how well that works when my son's private school selects a new math curriculum. They will be moving away from Everyday Math to either Saxon or Sadlier-Oxford "Progress in Mathematics". Apparently, Singapore Math is not on the list of choices. I'm not sure why. At least both of the choices meet California standards. I prefer Saxon, and just the name will send a clear message to parents and other schools.

-- SteveH - 07 Dec 2006

Is there any data on tutors and reteaching ... anywhere? Has anybody ever compared rates of tutoring to see if it goes up with reform math? Supporters of reform math claim there is a mountain of research supporting their programs --- but in this mountain, is there a single study that addresses the issue of tutoring?

-- RobynW - 07 Dec 2006