there is some parenting style - authorative, I think - which is associated with wonderful, responsible teenagers, etc, compared to either very slack parenting styles or very rigid ones.

That's the Laurence Steinberg book, BEYOND THE CLASSROOM.

This is one of the reasons I think the "helicopter parent" meme is a crock. We've got peer-reviewed research going back decades showing that U.S. parents have three distinct and distinctive parenting styles, one of which is called "authoritative."

None of the three is compatible with the helicopter parent stereotype.

-- CatherineJohnson - 27 Sep 2006

She argues that the correlation between parenting styles and child outcomes could equally be driven by the child as the parent.

oh, yes, absolutely (assuming I'm following)

the child creates his environment - I don't have an "intuitive" sense of the degree to which this is so, but I grasp the principal

I'm blasted at the minute (went to the school board meeting tonight) - but I think this is the same principal behind the twins-and-IQ studies, and I think those studies may contradict her thesis.....

BUT I'm too fried to think this through tonight - back tomorrow!

-- CatherineJohnson - 27 Sep 2006

Without having done so, I don't accept her thesis

She's really got two theses.

1. That, once you account for the impact of genes, the home environment has very little impact on children's personalities. Eg identical twins who were separated at birth and brought up in separate households show about the same level of correlation in personality as identical children brought up together. Adopted children's personalities are no more correlated with their adoptive parents' personalities than a random child off the street. This thesis is fairly well-supported.

She argues that the correlation between parenting styles and child outcomes could equally be driven by the child as the parent. Eg there is some parenting style - authorative, I think - which is associated with wonderful, responsible teenagers, etc, compared to either very slack parenting styles or very rigid ones. But she points out the other possibility is that parents who do not have wonderful, responsible teenagers either give up completely trying to control them, or go over the top with rules, etc, in an attempt to control them. That the authorative style may only work if your children are reasonably responsible and mature in the first place.

2. The second is more of a hypothesis, which she only has more limited data to support, that peer groups are what affects the rest of a child's personality. Eg, a child will learn the accent of their peers, not their parents, if the two are different. There is one study she refers to, which found that if a child (pre-puberty) shifted groups of friends at school their personality and habbits changed to be closer to that of their new friends.

Judith Harris points out that this does not mean that parenting is unimportant. A parent can make a vast difference to a child's level of happiness as a child, and that is very important even if it does not affect a child's adult life. A parent also, in our society, has some influence on a child's pair group by deciding where to live and what school to send them to. And a parent can teach their child useful skills, like, to pick an example completely at random, maths, which the kid won't lose even if the kid's personality is beyond their parents' ability to control.

-- TracyW - 26 Sep 2006

wow

I'm having a Paradigm Shift moment

Tracy's observation also explains the way we chose to handle the "scary black kid" incident.

When we found out about it, we discovered that Christian had been "advising" Christopher for quite awhile without telling us.

I tried to think that one through.

It struck me that a "normal" parent would not have felt that it's a good idea to have Christian become the "school fight consultant."

And yet I felt, strongly, that I needed to stay out of it (Ed felt the same way).

I think Tracy has explained it.

I think we've (tried to find) a way to have a "peer group" inside the family....a "peer group" that knows Jimmy & Andrew, can deal with Jimmy & Andrew, and accepts & likes Jimmy & Andrew....

A peer group "big brother" who's not remotely traumatized by the fact that we have two autistic children & Christopher has two autistic siblings.

-- CatherineJohnson - 26 Sep 2006

Tracy

You know???

You've jogged my brain.

Wow!

Thank you!

From the very start of all this - "all this" meaning our zillions of autistic offspring - we've had an "Open Door" policy, by which I mean we're constantly bringing people into the family in one way or another.

In Studio City, of course, where we lived in a cottage & the weather was nice year 'round, this was easy to do.

But we've managed it to some degree even here.

Martine has been with us since the twins were born; Christian has now been more or less installed as honorary stepson....

I've always known this was a "good" thing to do - good meaning mentally healthy.

But I never knew why, exactly, though I have some ideas.

I think you've put your finger on one effect.

Extending one's family in the informal way we've done is a way of bringing a peer culture inside the house.

Christian functions as Christopher's peer. I always say we've reversed the "Big Brother" program; we've brought in the black kid from Yonkers to be Big Brother to our white kid from Irvington. (And by the way, all of Christopher's friends adore Christian, too; and their parents like him.)

Christopher adores him, hangs on his every word, wrestles with him, plays video games with him, etc., etc., etc.

AND Christian's job, which he performs faithfully & well, is to manage Andrew & Jimmy.

For quite awhile now I've had the strongest perception that Christian is critical to Christopher's well-being.

I think you've just given me the explanation.

THANK YOU!

-- CatherineJohnson - 26 Sep 2006

Judith Harris, in her book called The Nurture Assumption, argues that children are socialised by their peers, not by their family. Which is very useful if you happen to be the child of immigrants, since it's the culture you're growing up in you'll probably have to cope with as an adult.

I have her book, and have still not gotten around to reading it.

Without having done so, I don't accept her thesis - BUT I'm sure I'm going to learn a great deal from her supporting evidence....(I may be persuaded by the thesis as well, of course)

-- CatherineJohnson - 26 Sep 2006

this is a child growing up with two very severely autistic siblings who routinely, 27/7, turn the household upside down; who make us prisoners of these four walls. He's not having a normal childhood, not even close, and yet so far he's a normal kid. (knock on wood)

Judith Harris, in her book called The Nurture Assumption, argues that children are socialised by their peers, not by their family. Which is very useful if you happen to be the child of immigrants, since it's the culture you're growing up in you'll probably have to cope with as an adult.

Judith Harris does present some strong evidence that parenting style doesn't have much at all of an impact on a child's adult personality outside the home, once you account for the impact of genes.

So by this argument, as long as you don't keep Christopher from his friends, he'll probably work out quite well.

-- TracyW - 24 Sep 2006

I think it's right to say that, 2 years into steady afterschooling, our example should be encouraging.

Afterschooling really does seem to work — and the pay-offs are long-term as opposed to immediate (which is what KUMON tells you. KUMON tells parents that it takes a year of daily KUMON to see results.)

-- CatherineJohnson - 22 Sep 2006

"So far, so good" is really the best we can do I think.

-- CatherineJohnson - 22 Sep 2006

Doing well in math has really helped her confidence. She now thinks she’s a math genius. She’s also slightly delusional.

I love it!

Everyone's slightly delusional - it's actually called "healthy illusions" I believe.

My favorite statistic is: 90% of all people believe they drive better than average.

With kids, though, those healthy delusions are always pretty hilarious, and touching, too.

One of my friends whose been shlepping her daughter to KUMON told the cutest story.

This little girl has a math brain dad (serious math brain; has a Ph.D., works in the field, etc.)

She LOVES math.

The teacher told my friend how amazing it was that she carries on thinking she's great at math when she is apparently not at the top of the class (I hope I'm getting this story right).

The teacher wasn't being critical or making a joke. She was saying that this little girl definitely isn't one of the top kids, but she loves math and she thinks she's one of the tops kids.

Christopher has no idea Ms. Kahl punched in "Finds subject matter difficult" on his report card & I'm going to keep it that way!

-- CatherineJohnson - 22 Sep 2006

" . . . so far, so good"

Catherine,

Reading your posts inspires & energizes me. Actually, tires me out sometimes! lol.

I often find myself saying that about my two children - so far, so good.

My daughter tells me her friends say “your mom has too many rules!”.. This past summer it was usually - first your two math lessons, then playtime.

Doing well in math has really helped her confidence. She now thinks she’s a math genius. She’s also slightly delusional.

-- TexasDesert - 22 Sep 2006

I have to say this, too: the truth is, I don't know what kind of shape Christopher is in, ultimately.

Not infrequently people ask me, "How is Christopher? How does he deal with all this?" Meaning how does he deal with having two autistic siblings.

I don't know, and I know that I don't know. I always say his shrink will tell us when he's 30.

That said, at this moment he's good, I think. He's chipper, too; he has friends; he likes school and is invested in doing well there.

And as of today he is officially below the line dividing "overweight" from "at risk for overweight"!

The most I can know or say with Christopher is so far, so good.

-- CatherineJohnson - 22 Sep 2006

And while I'm bragging about my brilliant parenting (God is going to get me for this, and He's going to be right) Christian is doing fantastically well, too.

He LOVES college. He's completely transformed. He walks differently. He's confident, he's chipper (he's always been cheerful), and he makes lots more eye contact!

And guess what?

He's taking his Saxon Math placement test next Tuesday. The TIME HAS COME.

Anyways, I almost never feel as if I know, for sure that what I'm doing is the right thing. No exaggeration.

But I do think we've managed to make a goodly number of right choices.

ABOUT CHRISTIAN: I don't want to say a word about Christian without crediting his mom.

We're playing a parental role with Christian when it comes to college.

The only reason we can do that is that his mom got him through Yonkers schools in one piece - AND provided him with the college level vocabulary and content knowledge to do college level work.

THAT WAS ALL HER.

One of these days I'd love to interview her - I'd love to know how she did it.

-- CatherineJohnson - 22 Sep 2006

That may or may not be a good idea.

Actually, I'm not unhappy with where things stand at this point. I'm sure we're seen as a HUGE thorn in the district's side by the school board and our two superintendents.

At the same time, the proof is in the pudding. Jimmy is a severely autistic person who had basically been given up on as hopeless by BOCES; today, with Holly Sewalk & Irvington High School's tremendous efforts along with ours, he is a "Good Citizen." (I call him that sometimes, and it captures something true about Jimmy. He's a good citizen.)

Andrew is a nut, but he too had been given up on for speech and for learning academic content and he is now - again, with tremendous help from his school speech therapist and teacher - talking some (and we know he'll talk more) and learning real math.

And Christopher is a well-behaved, hard-working kid who is one of two children in his grade with actual school spirit. AND this is a child growing up with two very severely autistic siblings who routinely, 27/7, turn the household upside down; who make us prisoners of these four walls. He's not having a normal childhood, not even close, and yet so far he's a normal kid. (knock on wood)

He's a good kid.

When our previous director of special ed was pushed out she told us, "You are fantastic advocates for your kids," and she meant it as a compliment.

I'd be surprised if there are school personnel who don't think we've done a good job with our kids.

If any of them do think such a thing, they're wrong.

-- CatherineJohnson - 22 Sep 2006

That is excellent! I can only hope to achieve a fraction of your reputation . . .

-- LynnGuelzow - 22 Sep 2006

your mother whips you

As Christopher was zipping through the math problems in his cooperative learning group yesterday, the kid across the way said, "Chris, you're a genius. Your mother makes you do extra work or she whips you."

My reputation is growing apace.




after school reports from Lynn & Barry

-- CatherineJohnson - 22 Sep 2006

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• Posted by: CatherineJohnson
• LogDate: Sep 22, 2006 @ 08:10