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31 Jul 2005 - 21:37
More recently, in this country, the Prime Mover was John Dewey:
UPDATE 11-20-2006: No! The prime mover was not John Dewey! John Dewey was the loser, not the winner!
It's always worse than you think.
And here is an Inquiry Circle, which I found at the Inquiry Page!
Wait. Isn't it supposed to be a spiral?
johndewey
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"One of these days I'll make Ed sit down and write a short explanation of just how & why, exactly, Rousseau managed to come up with an idea that is running math education in America today, 150 years later." There are quite a few other folks who contributed to the romantic brew that dominates current education. Folks like Pestalozzi, Froebel and Herbert Spencer. See Cults of Ignorance linke at my site: http://instructivist.blogspot.com/2005/05/terminological-clarification.html -- KtmGuest - 31 Jul 2005
THANKS! I WILL! -- CatherineJohnson - 31 Jul 2005
Catherine, I'm reading a rather provocative book, A Different Kind of Teacher, by John Taylor Gatto, who likens the Prussian beginnings of compulsory schooling as really a way to control the masses. He's pretty out there, but quite fascinating... "Schools were designed by Horace Mann, E.L. Thorndike, and others to be instruments of the scientific management of a mass population. Schools are intended to produce, through the application of formulas, formulaic human beings whose behavior can be predicted and controlled. To a very great extent, schools succeed in doing this." He goes into what he calls the real history of education in America. It's quite interesting. I love this, he definitely doesn't mince words... "No effect of compulsory mass-schooling is more resistant to remedy than the damage it has done to the American family by separating parents and kids." He examines the myths of schooling in quite an entertaining way, I must admit. -- SusanS - 31 Jul 2005
I forgot to mention that John Taylor Gatto is a retired NY school teacher who has won NYC Teacher of the year for 3 years, and NY State Teacher of the year for 2. Obviously, he's retired now... -- SusanS - 31 Jul 2005
No effect of compulsory mass-schooling is more resistant to remedy than the damage it has done to the American family by separating parents and kids I may have to read this guy. Because the expression that constantly pops into my head reading through all these various texts is this: All your children are belong to us I do continually sense a power-struggle over who's in charge of the children. The constant disparagement of parents as a group is a giveaway, I think. It's most obvious in the 'health' arena, where you can get massive, open battles. Our entire town is now involved in a kind of Civil War between Catholics and everyone else, because the high school gave a required assembly promoting gay tolerance. Father Byrne, the head of the Catholic Church in town, encouraged his parishioners to protest.....and things moved to a point where we now have a war. The mayoral race was tied because of this, and the mayor, who lost by 1 vote, is refusing to give up his seat. It's a mess. What's interesting, though, is the school's response to the brouhaha. Assuming what I learned at the school board candidate debate is correct, the school's reaction to parents' protests was to decide simply not to inform parents of upcoming assemblies. To me, that's a power move. -- CatherineJohnson - 01 Aug 2005
What's also interesting about that is how surprised school officials are when parents have a problem with what they're doing. I remember when 9/11 happened, the NEA wanted teachers to go in and teach that it was nobody's fault. Our school backed down and just kept it very generic, with any discussions pertaining to the tragedy of it all and not much else. Parents could fill in the gaps when the dust settled. I imagine this made a lot of the schools uncomfortable since they couldn't really control the thinking of their charges. The would have to trust the (gulp) parents. -- SusanS - 01 Aug 2005
the NEA wanted teachers to go in and teach that it was nobody's fault Really???? I find that utterly shocking. -- CatherineJohnson - 01 Aug 2005
I wish I understood the politics and history and psychological motivation better. I've said this before, but I find the education world murky in the extreme. Another 'symptom' to me of a power struggle is the lack of choice. I personally would be happy for parents who prefer a constructivist curriculum to have a constructivist curriculum. My ideal, at our school, would be to have TRAILBLAZERS for parents who want TRAILBLAZERS, SAXON for parents who want Saxon (and probably for all kids with learning problems or who are behind), & SINGAPORE for adventurous parents like me (and probably for the advanced kids). That's entirely doable; they're using different textbooks for different Phases now, at the Middle School. I would like that set-up, because it would allow us to compare and contrast; we could see which kids were doing better and on which subjects. But you never hear such a sentiment from constructivists. There is no language of freedom or choice at all, apart from the faux freedom of children being 'allowed' to 'investigate.' When it's essential to you that your ideas be imposed on people who reject them.....don't we have to see a power motive there? -- CatherineJohnson - 01 Aug 2005
I wish I understood the politics and history and psychological motivation better. I've said this before, but I find the education world murky in the extreme. Another 'symptom' to me of a power struggle is the lack of choice. I personally would be happy for parents who prefer a constructivist curriculum to have a constructivist curriculum. My ideal, at our school, would be to have TRAILBLAZERS for parents who want TRAILBLAZERS, SAXON for parents who want Saxon (and probably for all kids with learning problems or who are behind), & SINGAPORE for adventurous parents like me (and probably for the advanced kids). That's entirely doable; they're using different textbooks for different Phases now, at the Middle School. I would like that set-up, because it would allow us to compare and contrast; we could see which kids were doing better and on which subjects. But you never hear such a sentiment from constructivists. There is no language of freedom or choice at all, apart from the faux freedom of children being 'allowed' to 'investigate.' When it's essential to you that your ideas be imposed on people who reject them.....don't we have to see a power motive there? -- CatherineJohnson - 01 Aug 2005
I personally would be happy for parents who prefer a constructivist curriculum to have a constructivist curriculum. My ideal, at our school, would be to have TRAILBLAZERS for parents who want TRAILBLAZERS, SAXON for parents who want Saxon (and probably for all kids with learning problems or who are behind), & SINGAPORE for adventurous parents like me (and probably for the advanced kids). Wouldn't this be SWEET! With a deal like that in place, we might even be able to close up shop here and start blogging about fashion trends, or something. It always seemed to me that, instead of ability-grouping, they should curriculum-group -- it would have been a lot better for the kids, and would have done away with the whole stigma of being in a slower group thing. -- CarolynJohnston - 01 Aug 2005
With a deal like that in place, we might even be able to close up shop here and start blogging about fashion trends, or something. It always seemed to me that, instead of ability-grouping, they should curriculum-group -- it would have been a lot better for the kids, and would have done away with the whole stigma of being in a slower group thing. You know--that's a neat idea. That would have SOME effect on the stigma, I bet....because there would be parents who want Saxon whether their kids are behind or not.... In our school a lot of parents wanted their kids to get into the multi-sensory class, which was for kids who were 'at risk' (meaning they had some learning problems, might need a special ed designation, etc.). Parents wanted the class because they liked the way it was taught. -- CatherineJohnson - 01 Aug 2005
John Dewey, constructivist
Why is constructivism here? Good question. I know even less about history than I do about math, but fortunately I'm married to a historian, which comes in handy. Constructivism is here, I gather, thanks to Jean Jacques Rousseau. One of these days I'll make Ed sit down and write a short explanation of just how & why, exactly, Rousseau managed to come up with an idea that is running math education in the New World today, 150 years later.
More recently, in this country, the Prime Mover was John Dewey:
Only by wrestling with the conditions of the problem at hand, seeking and finding his own solution (not in isolation but in correspondence with the teacher and other pupils) does one learn."Sound familiar?
John Dewey, How We Think, 1910
UPDATE 11-20-2006: No! The prime mover was not John Dewey! John Dewey was the loser, not the winner!
Ellen Lagemann explains ... with admirable precision: ‘I have often argued to students, only in part to be perverse, that one cannot understand the history of education in the United States during the twentieth century unless one realizes that Edward L. Thorndike won and John Dewey lost.’ source:
Progressivism, Schools and Schools of Education: An American Romance (pdf file)
David F. Labaree
Paedagogica Historica,
Vol. 41, Nos. 1&2, February 2005, pp. 275–288
It's always worse than you think.
And here is an Inquiry Circle, which I found at the Inquiry Page!
Wait. Isn't it supposed to be a spiral?
update
I may have located our Opposite Number. from The Inquiry Page:The Inquiry Page is more than a website. It's a dynamic virtual community where inquiry-based education can be discussed, resources and experiences shared, and innovative approaches explored in a collaborative environment. Here you can search a growing database of inquiry units, and you can also build your own inquiry units. You can see pictures of inquiry-based activities and learn more about some of our partners who use inquiry methods. Learn how to assess and evaluate inquiry-based education or look for more inquiry resources to support what you're doing. Or you can simply find out more about what inquiry and The Inquiry Page are all about.That's a whole lot of Inquiry. So right off the bat, they've got us beat, because there's nobody here at KTM with the chops to squeeze 8 'direct instructions' into 4 sentences.
Based on John Dewey's philosophy that education begins with the curiosity of the learner, we use a spiral path of inquiry: asking questions, investigating solutions, creating new knowledge as we gather information, discussing our discoveries and experiences, and reflecting on our new-found knowledge.Problem identified. The reason I have screaming, yelling, crying, and playing out the clock here at home is that I've been using direct instruction. If I'd been using a spiral path of inquiry we'd be having a gas.
Each step in this process naturally leads to the next: inspiring new questions, investigations, and opportunities for authentic "teachable moments."I'll just bet.
johndewey
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Look here for syntax help.
"One of these days I'll make Ed sit down and write a short explanation of just how & why, exactly, Rousseau managed to come up with an idea that is running math education in America today, 150 years later." There are quite a few other folks who contributed to the romantic brew that dominates current education. Folks like Pestalozzi, Froebel and Herbert Spencer. See Cults of Ignorance linke at my site: http://instructivist.blogspot.com/2005/05/terminological-clarification.html -- KtmGuest - 31 Jul 2005
THANKS! I WILL! -- CatherineJohnson - 31 Jul 2005
Catherine, I'm reading a rather provocative book, A Different Kind of Teacher, by John Taylor Gatto, who likens the Prussian beginnings of compulsory schooling as really a way to control the masses. He's pretty out there, but quite fascinating... "Schools were designed by Horace Mann, E.L. Thorndike, and others to be instruments of the scientific management of a mass population. Schools are intended to produce, through the application of formulas, formulaic human beings whose behavior can be predicted and controlled. To a very great extent, schools succeed in doing this." He goes into what he calls the real history of education in America. It's quite interesting. I love this, he definitely doesn't mince words... "No effect of compulsory mass-schooling is more resistant to remedy than the damage it has done to the American family by separating parents and kids." He examines the myths of schooling in quite an entertaining way, I must admit. -- SusanS - 31 Jul 2005
I forgot to mention that John Taylor Gatto is a retired NY school teacher who has won NYC Teacher of the year for 3 years, and NY State Teacher of the year for 2. Obviously, he's retired now... -- SusanS - 31 Jul 2005
No effect of compulsory mass-schooling is more resistant to remedy than the damage it has done to the American family by separating parents and kids I may have to read this guy. Because the expression that constantly pops into my head reading through all these various texts is this: All your children are belong to us I do continually sense a power-struggle over who's in charge of the children. The constant disparagement of parents as a group is a giveaway, I think. It's most obvious in the 'health' arena, where you can get massive, open battles. Our entire town is now involved in a kind of Civil War between Catholics and everyone else, because the high school gave a required assembly promoting gay tolerance. Father Byrne, the head of the Catholic Church in town, encouraged his parishioners to protest.....and things moved to a point where we now have a war. The mayoral race was tied because of this, and the mayor, who lost by 1 vote, is refusing to give up his seat. It's a mess. What's interesting, though, is the school's response to the brouhaha. Assuming what I learned at the school board candidate debate is correct, the school's reaction to parents' protests was to decide simply not to inform parents of upcoming assemblies. To me, that's a power move. -- CatherineJohnson - 01 Aug 2005
What's also interesting about that is how surprised school officials are when parents have a problem with what they're doing. I remember when 9/11 happened, the NEA wanted teachers to go in and teach that it was nobody's fault. Our school backed down and just kept it very generic, with any discussions pertaining to the tragedy of it all and not much else. Parents could fill in the gaps when the dust settled. I imagine this made a lot of the schools uncomfortable since they couldn't really control the thinking of their charges. The would have to trust the (gulp) parents. -- SusanS - 01 Aug 2005
the NEA wanted teachers to go in and teach that it was nobody's fault Really???? I find that utterly shocking. -- CatherineJohnson - 01 Aug 2005
I wish I understood the politics and history and psychological motivation better. I've said this before, but I find the education world murky in the extreme. Another 'symptom' to me of a power struggle is the lack of choice. I personally would be happy for parents who prefer a constructivist curriculum to have a constructivist curriculum. My ideal, at our school, would be to have TRAILBLAZERS for parents who want TRAILBLAZERS, SAXON for parents who want Saxon (and probably for all kids with learning problems or who are behind), & SINGAPORE for adventurous parents like me (and probably for the advanced kids). That's entirely doable; they're using different textbooks for different Phases now, at the Middle School. I would like that set-up, because it would allow us to compare and contrast; we could see which kids were doing better and on which subjects. But you never hear such a sentiment from constructivists. There is no language of freedom or choice at all, apart from the faux freedom of children being 'allowed' to 'investigate.' When it's essential to you that your ideas be imposed on people who reject them.....don't we have to see a power motive there? -- CatherineJohnson - 01 Aug 2005
I wish I understood the politics and history and psychological motivation better. I've said this before, but I find the education world murky in the extreme. Another 'symptom' to me of a power struggle is the lack of choice. I personally would be happy for parents who prefer a constructivist curriculum to have a constructivist curriculum. My ideal, at our school, would be to have TRAILBLAZERS for parents who want TRAILBLAZERS, SAXON for parents who want Saxon (and probably for all kids with learning problems or who are behind), & SINGAPORE for adventurous parents like me (and probably for the advanced kids). That's entirely doable; they're using different textbooks for different Phases now, at the Middle School. I would like that set-up, because it would allow us to compare and contrast; we could see which kids were doing better and on which subjects. But you never hear such a sentiment from constructivists. There is no language of freedom or choice at all, apart from the faux freedom of children being 'allowed' to 'investigate.' When it's essential to you that your ideas be imposed on people who reject them.....don't we have to see a power motive there? -- CatherineJohnson - 01 Aug 2005
I personally would be happy for parents who prefer a constructivist curriculum to have a constructivist curriculum. My ideal, at our school, would be to have TRAILBLAZERS for parents who want TRAILBLAZERS, SAXON for parents who want Saxon (and probably for all kids with learning problems or who are behind), & SINGAPORE for adventurous parents like me (and probably for the advanced kids). Wouldn't this be SWEET! With a deal like that in place, we might even be able to close up shop here and start blogging about fashion trends, or something. It always seemed to me that, instead of ability-grouping, they should curriculum-group -- it would have been a lot better for the kids, and would have done away with the whole stigma of being in a slower group thing. -- CarolynJohnston - 01 Aug 2005
With a deal like that in place, we might even be able to close up shop here and start blogging about fashion trends, or something. It always seemed to me that, instead of ability-grouping, they should curriculum-group -- it would have been a lot better for the kids, and would have done away with the whole stigma of being in a slower group thing. You know--that's a neat idea. That would have SOME effect on the stigma, I bet....because there would be parents who want Saxon whether their kids are behind or not.... In our school a lot of parents wanted their kids to get into the multi-sensory class, which was for kids who were 'at risk' (meaning they had some learning problems, might need a special ed designation, etc.). Parents wanted the class because they liked the way it was taught. -- CatherineJohnson - 01 Aug 2005
| WebLogForm | |
|---|---|
| Title: | John Dewey, constructivist |
| TopicType: | WebLog |
| SubjectArea: | AboutHistory |
| LogDate: | 200507311736 |