Comments

Welcome back!

Yes, I use direction giving as a means of judging certain things about people: attention to detail, assumptions they make about what they believe is obvious to all, imprecision: things like "3rd or 4th light, make a left". (The latter drives me crazy. I'll stop them right there and say, OK, which is it, 3rd or 4th? Do you have a name of the street I'm supposed to turn on?)

True story: When I was in the private sector, I visited someone at the EPA who was infamous for his anal retentiveness about the regulation he was in charge of. It was obvious he ruled, and he made life miserable for many people in industry trying to get a simple permit for even the smallest of projects. He was into the arcane. So I visited him once when I was in N. Carolina where he works. He gave very precise and detailed instructions on how to get to his office, as I would have expected. And the instructions were wrong! (Also as I would have expected).

As far as making mistakes in math, I like to let students do some problems, and actually make the mistakes, so it has meaning when you explain it. Yes, it's valuable though to point out some slip up areas, but I just don't like to go on and on. Otherwise, you keep giving so many warnings they get bored. Kids are gonna make mistakes; live with it. Let them make them so you can see what they are.

-- BarryGarelick - 31 Aug 2006

Someone in Australia recently sued their private school for not teaching their kid to read - and won! All the teachers at the public school where I'm a student teacher were up in arms about it, commenting on how some lazy kid's mum got a bunch of money for having a lazy kid.

-- SamanthaRawson - 31 Aug 2006

Someone in Australia recently sued their private school for not teaching their kid to read - and won!

I'm licking my chops.

We're seeing an attorney tomorrow (no more details here) so I'll ask him where things stand in NY state.

I do know you can't sue the federal govt; I expect that individual state legislatures have passed laws exempting schools & districts from liability.

-- CatherineJohnson - 31 Aug 2006

How's your student teaching going???!!!

-- CatherineJohnson - 31 Aug 2006

My sister-in-law, who is a fantastic first grade teacher, had news.

Her district is looking to replace Saxon Math. I'm not sure why, though I think it has to do with frustration over its repetitiveness. It's too slow for the fast kids (Dan had this problem with his daughter, iirc).

The teachers had been simply accelerating the fast kids into the next level book, which is what Saxon is built for. The books aren't really grade level books; that's why they have names like "Saxon 7/6," which means 7th grade/6th grade.

But the district has forbidden acceleration. (Imagine! Teachers have been outright forbidden to accelerate kids who are ready to be accelerated.)

Instead the district wants to find a curriculum that can be "differentiated."

They hired a math consultant who's trying to get them to buy TERC.

-- CatherineJohnson - 31 Aug 2006

This is in the heart of IL.

There is no safe place.

-- CatherineJohnson - 31 Aug 2006

He gave very precise and detailed instructions on how to get to his office, as I would have expected. And the instructions were wrong! (Also as I would have expected).

Have I mentioned I've become a small-l libertarian?

-- CatherineJohnson - 31 Aug 2006

If there is ONE THING in life bound to convert a person to small-l libertarianism it would be a small-town school district.

-- CatherineJohnson - 31 Aug 2006

I would say that Saxon goes out of his way to prevent mistakes....wish to heck the guy were still alive.

I'd love to spend 10 or 12 hours interviewing him.

-- CatherineJohnson - 31 Aug 2006

Those books are written with incredible care.

The structure is brilliant.

-- CatherineJohnson - 31 Aug 2006

I think - I'll see if I can find examples as I go along - Saxon, in addition to creating a kind of "errorless learning" approach, also structures in specific mistakes in the problem sets.

Several times I've done a problem wrong only to realize that the mistake was an obvious mistake I "needed" to make to really get the concept - to discriminate the concept in the Lesson from other concepts in other lessons.

Saxon is amazing.

But L-O-O-O-N-N-G

-- CatherineJohnson - 31 Aug 2006

...Saxon books are huge. "Huge" meaning long and time-consuming.

Longer than two semesters of remedial math?

-- BenCalvin - 31 Aug 2006

Is Christian on board for all of this, or are you having to push him? (I'm not making a judgment either way, but it might impact your approach).

If he's on board -- I think I recommend Saxon. If he's determined to get the hang of it and get past this problem, then the lengthiness of the problem sets won't bother him so much. Plus -- keep in mind there is lots of repetition and he can probably skip one or two books if he needs to.

If he's not on board -- I think I recommend Saxon in that case too.

Does Christian absolutely HAVE to take these two remedial classes before signing up for further math and science courses?

-- CarolynJohnston - 01 Sep 2006

I'm with Carolyn (what's new). Saxon is the way to go, especially if he has math anxiety. Saxon builds confidence and is easy to read and figure out by yourself.

With all of your free time:), could you tutor him using Saxon?

You can jump chapters with Saxon if you just do the practice problems only and then move on. That speeds things up quite a bit. If a problem starts to show, you can always go back to doing the entire chapter, I would think. Their homeschool book of quizzes could also alert you to any gaps that might be forming. Saxon does not drop any concept for long before bringing it back. If there is a lack of clarity about something you can't escape. It will keep coming back.

-- SusanS - 01 Sep 2006

Craiglist is a great resouce for finding tutors (at least here in SF).

-- BenCalvin - 01 Sep 2006

Longer than two semesters of remedial math?

LOL!

good question!

-- CatherineJohnson - 02 Sep 2006

Carolyn - HI!!! (I'll try to call later today - we're going to the Open tomorrow, assuming we don't get rained out. Hurricane season around here.)

You've hit the nail on the head: Christian is radically not on board for learning math. He's completely avoidant.

I'm going to have Ed talk to him.

-- CatherineJohnson - 02 Sep 2006

you know what — this is good advice

on board or not, Saxon is the way to go

I've worked with it long enough myself to know. I'm learning math; I've easily passed every "outside" test I've given myself. (The ALEKS tests are at the very limits of what I know, so the fact that I stumble on ALEKS isn't relevant. And the fact that I quickly figure the ALEKS problems out is relevant.)

I bought a College Board book on the SATs & took one of the sample math tests.

I got every problem right. Every problem. The test was incredibly easy for me, as a direct result of Saxon Math.

Christian is radically math-avoidant at this point, so he's going to have to deal with that.

Two things need to happen:

1. I need to keep nagging & bringing up the comparison to Christopher who is teaching himself math from Saxon.

2. Ed needs to tell him to learn math.

Christian adores Ed. And I mean adores.

I'll tell him Ed took calculus at Princeton & Ed will tell him he has to learn math.

Then he can "sit with" that for awhile.

He does have to take two remedial math courses before he can take any further courses in math or science - and he can't get an Associate of Arts degree without passing those courses.

This isn't negotiable.

It shouldn't be negotiable, either. Christian can't even pass the arithmetic portion of the test.

There's no excuse for that. You can get through life without algebra, though I don't think it's a good idea.

You have to have arithmetic.

-- CatherineJohnson - 02 Sep 2006

I'm going to let math slide while Christian deals with the course he's taking.

Once he's on track & doing well, his confidence will rise & he'll be ready to tackle a new challenge.

His father, whom he hasn't seen in years, used to sit around doing long division for fun. That's one of his main images of his dad - that his dad liked math & was good at it. (I think his dad may have worked as an accountant.)

So he's got plenty of "life messages" telling him that a) he can learn math and b) he has to learn math.

-- CatherineJohnson - 02 Sep 2006

After spending some time at WCC I feel as if our community colleges are one of the the only institutions keeping our country going.

Though I must say that the "counseling staff" at WCC leaves a lot to be desired.

-- CatherineJohnson - 02 Sep 2006

I like Saxon AND Singapore. I like Singapore's presentation of concepts better and their problems are more complex, but I like Saxon's repetitive problems to make sure kids are getting the skills. I will mix Singapore with Saxon in the upcoming year.

Speaking of Singapore, a 6th grader I was tutoring this past year (with Singapore Math) got a perfect score in the Virginia math SOL. She had been getting average scores in math until this year. Nota Bene: The school she's in uses EM. When I started tutoring her, I started at the 4th grade SM book with fractions thinking it would be review. She had had the stuff before, but it was like it was brand new. The wonders of the spiral.

The downside of all this of course is that her perfect score will serve as "evidence" to the Fairfax County Council of Dolts, (aka School Board) that EM is working. You can't win for losing some time. Still, I'm happy for my student.

-- BarryGarelick - 02 Sep 2006

I like Singapore a lot. We have spent the whole summer covering 4th grade SM for my soon to be 5th grader. I just know that I can't do 2 math programs on top of everything else she has for school, so we will just go with Singapore. She gets EM at school. The good news is that we have covered a lot of material this summer. The fraction and decimal stuff in 4B of SM won't be covered in her school until at least the 6th grade (and then it will be with a calculator). For the first time in 5 years of school, she seems to really get math.

I am very discouraged that EM will be replaced any time soon. We just got our elementary test scores back, and our town has done well in math across the board. There are a lot of reasons why this is true (starting with a really terrible state test, moving on to the influx of wealthy new families -- a 16% increase in one class, and a rash of private tutoring), but you know what the administrators will point to. There's no chance EM will be replaced at this point.

-- LynnGuelzow - 03 Sep 2006

Connected Math is more entrenched than ever in our school district, and EM seems to have taken over Ben's former elementary school -- which started out with Saxon math.

-- CarolynJohnston - 03 Sep 2006

-- KtmGuest - 03 Sep 2006

I'm a 6th grade math teacher with an EM elementary system. I started using Singapore math 5th grade level by myself last year, 2nd nine weeks and the stanines increased dramatically along with number sense scores. So this year I'm doing what Barry did and starting at 3B for measurement and continuing with 4A for my regular kids and 5A with the advanced kids.

I love the program! The kids learn so easily it's amazing!

Also, there is a student with asperger's in the advanced class! Finding ktm was serendipity!

-- KtmGuest - 03 Sep 2006

Teaching rounds are okay. We're only in a school for one day a week all year, so we go along and do something 'fun' for that one day.

Kind of what we're going to do as teachers.

The kids are all great, and my mentor teacher is actually very good. But it's near impossible to do anything relevant or useful when I'm only there one day a week. If I had year 6s, maybe. (I have grade 1s and 2s.)

-- SamanthaRawson - 03 Sep 2006

KtmGuest^?,

I'm glad to hear we can help! Welcome!

Did you have any administrative (or parental!) pushback when you tried to implement your new program?

I'd love to hear any insight you have about teaching your student with Asperger's, too.

-- CarolynJohnston - 03 Sep 2006

ktm guest

oh my gosh!!!

that's incredible!!!

can you keep us posted??

also, how are you able to choose your own curriculum??

wow!

-- CatherineJohnson - 05 Sep 2006

wow - lots of cool stuff here

I'll try to get it all "pulled up front" shortly -

-- CatherineJohnson - 05 Sep 2006

-- KtmGuest - 06 Sep 2006

We just got word that the new assistant principal for Dow's Lane is an expert in differentiated instruction and balanced literacy.

These people are shameless.

-- CatherineJohnson - 06 Sep 2006

Math is math. The texts we use are all basically the same. I earned my degree in engineering and loved teaching myself math. I figured I could teach other people to do what I do. After 5 years my scores were good and I was looking for more ways to improve them. I read Liping Ma's book and started looking for "chinese" ways of teaching. The TIMMS results told me that Singapore was the best so finally I ordered Liping Ma's textbook from Houghton Mifflin and then Singapore Math. It didn't look that different. I tried Liping Ma's books on my remedial class and discovered that they couldn't even subtract well. The diagrams looked the same in the Singapore Math books, so I tried them out next.

I do my own thing, try to stay in my room and my kids learn! I do have some helicopter parents :) but after awhile they start to trust me and my kids are learning.

Also, I do try to let my special needs kids do what everyone else does and then find out what accomodations they really require. Most kids can do a lot more than preconceived notions. Nobody fails unless they do nothing. I require nightly homework which causes frustration occasionally, espcecially at the beginning of the year. There are quizzes everyday too.

-- KtmGuest - 06 Sep 2006

I forgot to say... I buy everything myself. I have my own copy machine, laptop computer, software...

So far, no one has questioned my materials. I try to follow the general structure of the county's curriculum.

If your scores are good, no one will bother you.

-- KtmGuest - 06 Sep 2006

I do have some helicopter parents :) but after awhile they start to trust me and my kids are learning.

I love it!

I'm actually not a maniac on this subject; there are crazy people everywhere, and many if not most of them are probably parents of elementary school children at some point in their lives.

But ktm guest's comment is exactly right: your basic non-crazy helicopter parent would prefer not to be spending his/her time being a helicopter parent.

Helicoptering is a symptom, not a syndrome.

-- CatherineJohnson - 07 Sep 2006

I just read your comment closely - you've used Liping Ma's books!

These are the remedial books she's been writing, right?

Are they good?

Do you like them?

Do you prefer Singapore Math?

-- CatherineJohnson - 07 Sep 2006

There are quizzes everyday too.

WOW!!!!!!!

-- CatherineJohnson - 07 Sep 2006

I am looking for suggestions on the best way to teach 8th graders how to convert 33-1/3% to a fraction. There is a convoluted method that uses complex fractions but there must be a simpler way.

-- CharlesH - 09 Sep 2006

Liping Ma's books are nice for elementary school, especially to learn the multiplication tables...3rd grade level in Singapore. My basic kids were too high to benefit much from it. In fact, they were insulted by the books because they were too easy for them.

Singapore is just better for me because I do understand and LOVE math, AND I'm an engineer by training.

I used to quiz over the homework like Carol Gambill, but now I ask for the answers to 4 HW questions from the night before to assess understanding...then I create new quizzes each day either on basic skills (right now multiples and fractions, LCM) or skills which were taught about 1 week ago (didn't I read that here!).

Everyone I know is so tired of hearing about teaching math, even my hairdresser, that I'd love writing to KTM!

-- KtmGuest - 10 Sep 2006

that I'd love writing to KTM

oops... I love writing to KTM!

-- KtmGuest - 10 Sep 2006

I just read what you wrote about me. I don't know what to say. Unfortunately, I'll have to tell you that my county does require EM in elementary school, but they do allow for supplementary material. Some kids tell me that they don't do EM and some do in 5th grade. For middle school we use Glencoe and are starting to be advised to supplement, supplement, supplement. They are telling us the basals are all the same no matter the publisher. Of course, no one ever looks outside our country.

I read what you said about other teachers. I think I'm one of those unorganized teachers. I teach ad hoc and some days I don't know what is going to be the homework.

I don't grade each homework assignment, but we do every problem in class the next day, like I did in college.

I do take off points when they don't write their names or use pencil, but I think I will be changing that to earn a point when you use pencil, but I'll have to change something else to make that happen. I hate to change grading in the middle of the year.

I have STOPPED giving notebook quizzes where kids use their notebooks to answer questions in what amounts to a scavenger hunt. No content, just can you find the answer to #11 in 20 minutes without using the textbook, only HW.

I don't care how they organize themselves. I started using 3 prong 2 pocket folders so kids can stuff the papers into the folder and then into the backpack. There were lots of binder explosions. If kids would rather use the binder okay. I've seen the flexible plastic thingys you are talking about. Don't care. I just don't want them to have their multiplication tables on the desk to refer to. They need to KNOW the multiplication tables.

Is the pencil thing over the top? I just like to read pencil. I grade in multiple colors of ink, I never know when the red/green/purple pen will run out (we don't keep at lot of ink pens at home...3 year old running around who LOVES to write on the furniture if she gets mischevious) so it might be black ink and it gets tough to see who wrote what when you're grading 125-150 papers tonight.

The county is starting to give their own assessments, so I don't give as many tests. I hate to use too many days of instructional time gathering information that I get in the short daily quizzes. I like to give a test after a unit on fractions.

Thanks for the outlet. I'm having trouble reading everything now that school has started, but I love hearing what parents actually think about me.

Can I have an anonymous name?

-- KtmGuest - 10 Sep 2006

I am looking for suggestions on the best way to teach 8th graders how to convert 33-1/3% to a fraction. There is a convoluted method that uses complex fractions but there must be a simpler way.

First review with them what a percent means. 5 percent means 0.05, or 5 x .01. So 33-1/3% = 33-1/3 x 0.01. Then convert 33-1/3 to a fraction which becomes 100/3. So 33-13% = 100/3 x 0.01 = 1/3.

-- BarryGarelick - 10 Sep 2006

Ktm Guest,

You can definitely have an anonymous name. I think you just register with it and then leave off your email if you want (it's been a while since I registered, but there are a few people with funny monikers. It makes it easier to remember who's who.)

-- SusanS - 10 Sep 2006

Hi KtmGuest,

Yes, just register under a silly name. That way noone knows your real name, but we can identify your posts.

-- CarolynJohnston - 10 Sep 2006