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24 Apr 2006 - 18:48
I spoke to the math chair. Mostly bad. I was hostile, short-tempered, and unpleasant. That always helps.
[pause]
oops - arguing with Ed on the phone; back in a sec
[pause]
OK, argument finished. One of the many bonus sidelights of having your child stuck in a bad school is that you get to fight with your husband about whether you will or will not be homeschooling next year. Anyway, back on topic.
[pause]
the jist Christopher is responsible for knowing what he knows and doesn't know. Christopher was given a choice, Christopher "insisted" he was ready, other children who flunked the test didn't get a do-over, it would be unfair if Christopher got a second chance and they didn't. (Other children who flunked? Ms. Kahl is a "fine young teacher" and there are other children who flunked?) Children are "responsible" for their learning. If I am doing so much reteaching, then "maybe Christopher doesn't belong in Phase 4. Maybe he would do better in Phase 3." I "can't speak" for other parents, only for myself. She "can speak" for Ms. Kahl, because she has directly witnessed Ms. Kahl's class; she has seen that Ms. Kahl explains concepts clearly and the children understand. I "can't speak" for other parents; she will not listen to my account of Massive Tutoring in Irvington because anything I have to report is "hearsay." I am the "only parent who has complained about Ms. Kahl." The fact that a teeming Mongol horde of Irvington parents openly revolted against Ms. Kahl's teaching last year has nothing to do with this year. "That was a different group of parents and a different group of kids." She does not work for me, I do not pay her salary, she is "insulted" that I would say such a thing. (Yes, I said, "I pay your salary.") I think that about covers it.
getting a grip At some point I managed to get a grip. When I got a grip, I managed to take some of the responsibility off of her shoulders. I said that the problems we're having with Ms. Kahl are problems we're having with the school in general, though not with all of Christopher's teachers. Phase 4 math is a difficult class, so that's where the worst trouble crops up. I said that I was asking her, as a favor, to assume that when I tell her other parents are reteaching and tutoring their children, I am conveying information, not hearsay. She agreed. I think she meant it. I did manage to think on my feet when she suggested Christopher belonged in Phase 3. I quoted the Irvington Mission statement - every child should reach his full potential or some such - and said that a 'solution' that involves having children learn less math when they are capable of learning more math does not fulfill the mission. We were still in hostile mode at that point, and her response was, "That is your opinion." harrumph
tactical aside I am quite possibly the least strategic thinker on the planet, but my sense is that parents whose kids a) aren't behavior problems and b) are doing fairly well in school are going to have to take the lead on these issues. Christopher talks too much in class, but he's only been to the principal's office once in his entire K-6 career. His scores are high and his grades are actually fine - though we're going through bloody h*** to get him those grades - which means that teachers and administrators can't resort to arguments about his ability or behavior. They can, but they don't believe it themselves. Back on topic: if we're keeping score, and I suppose we are, the exchange concerning Phase 3 - Phase 4 was the one clear win for me. You simply can't argue that a kid belongs in slow-track math when he's got straight Bs in fast-track math, no matter how much reteaching his mother is doing at home. The logic doesn't hold, and everyone knows that kids are being tutored if only because it's Irvington teachers being hired to do the tutoring. Plus if Christopher were to move down to Phase 3 from Phase 4 with a B average he would be the first child in the history of the school to do so. So that went nowhere.
metacognition I made headway on the metacognitive issue. At least, I think I did. She said that when kids don't do well on her tests, she asks them, 'Why didn't you tell me you didn't understand?' and she tells them to come in for extra help. I said, 'And then what happens? Do you retest?' That was probably a moment of actual communication. She was silent, and she sounded silent in a thinking way, not an exasperated way. (Apparently I believe I can read silences on the telephone. Talk about not knowing what you don't know.) I said that I had always thought exactly as she thought. Until I read the literature on metacognition, I believed that children know what they do and don't know. I thought a good teacher explained the material well, tested the children on the material, and had the children who didn't do well on the test come in for extra help. I pointed out that adults also find it difficult to know what they don't know, and said that I frequently believe I understand a concept or procedure in math, and only discover that I don't when I test myself. That was our one 'good' moment. At least, it felt OK to me.
paradigm shift The idea that schools should be responsible for children's learning is a paradigm shift. I know this, and I need to act like I know it. People don't change their practice overnight because some parent in the school has read Dan Willingham's articles in AMERICAN EDUCATOR. I asked her to read Carol Gambill's description of her teaching method, and she said she would. I'll send her Dan Willingham's articles on flexible knowledge and metacognition, too. And that will do for now.
this will amuse you As usual with this school, there is a gaping failure to communicate. Apparently Ms. Kahl gave Christopher some kind of extra credit assignment he could do to make up for the 'F,' and has in fact restored 1/3 of the points lost,* but there's a problem because Christopher has not turned in his extra credit assignment, it's late, he's missed a deadline, etc. (blame-shifting! I know it well!)** That launched us on a ludicrous round of grammar-sparring when the math chair said, "You were informed," and I said, "Please don't use the passive voice," and she said, "You were sent an email," and I said, "Please don't use the passive voice," and etc. Good god. What was I thinking? (I was thinking I loathe being on the receiving end of Teacher Passive Voice Buck-passing, actually.) Then we almost got into an argument about whether I had or had not opened the email I "was sent." The math chair said I had, and offered some kind of evidence for this assertion, at which point I probably said, "Just give him an F."
* Would that have been a good moment to say, 'I appreciate that very much, thank you'? Yes. Did I do it? No. learn from my example, people! ** I asked Christopher about it, and he doesn't know what Ms. Kahl is talking about. Neither do I. I am SO sick of having no idea what teachers in this school are talking about. You were informed! Well, OK, maybe I WAS informed! But obviously I'm not informed now, AM I? So ENLIGHTEN ME, why don't you?
email to the math chair
cordial
email to the math teacher, part 1
Irvington Math Chair
follow-up to math chair
peer grading
extra credit
-- CatherineJohnson - 24 Apr 2006 Back to main page.
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Christopher is responsible for knowing what he knows and doesn't know. You can make kids responsible for supporting a family of four if you want, but how do you expect it to turn out? -- CarolynJohnston - 24 Apr 2006
You can make kids responsible for supporting a family of four if you want, but how do you expect it to turn out? Hey! I wish I'd thought of that! -- CatherineJohnson - 24 Apr 2006
Was it the Phase 4 kids' parents that revolted or another group? If I am doing so much reteaching, then perhaps Christopher does not belong in Phase 4. Or perhaps something is wrong with the teaching, or something is wrong with the curriculum. They're so on the defensive that they can't even consider these other things. -- SusanS - 24 Apr 2006
It was the Phase 4 parents JUST LAST YEAR. It was huge. It was a massive parent revolt. They had to hold a full-to-overflow meeting with enraged parents. One parent was actually crying. Now they're giving the teacher who provoked this rebellion tenure. -- CatherineJohnson - 24 Apr 2006
They're so on the defensive that they can't even consider these other things. I don't know how to analyze U.S. public schools. First of all, I acted and sounded l like an a******. Not a COMPLETE a******, but close enough. Thank God I managed to change course midstream. Nobody considers what their responsibility might be when they're under attack. That said......schools don't consider what their responsibility might be, period. -- CatherineJohnson - 24 Apr 2006
I almost think you need Freud to create a whole new category of defense mechnism: 'blame-shifting,' or 'evading accountability,' or something. They have it down to an art; they're so good at it they don't have to think to do it. That's what set me off about the Teacher Passive Voice. Passive voice is used (IS USED - LISTEN TO ME!) to avoid acknowledging agency. The instant a teacher or administrator is going to dump on a parent, they shift into passive voice. -- CatherineJohnson - 24 Apr 2006
….she will not listen to my account of Massive Tutoring in Irvington because anything I have to report is ‘hearsay’. Actually everything both of you said was hearsay, as it’s not spoken in court under oath. If you know families who are tutoring, you have direct knowledge of a fact. If someone has told you that someone else is tutoring, then you have it second hand (which is what I think she meant). -- BenCalvin - 24 Apr 2006
If you know families who are tutoring, you have direct knowledge of a fact. If someone has told you that someone else is tutoring, then you have it second hand (which is what I think she meant). Is that how it works? She seemed to be saying that the fact that other parents have told me they've hired tutors was hearsay. But maybe not. Her definition seemed to be that I would had to have been in someone else's home watching their child be tutored or 'afterschooled' in order not to be reporting hearsay. -- CatherineJohnson - 25 Apr 2006
The whole thing is ludicrous. It's part of the isolate-and-marginalize-the-individual-parent tactic. 'You're the only parent who's complained.' 'Your child is the only one who's having problems.' etc. -- CatherineJohnson - 25 Apr 2006
I realized after I hung up that the reason I know other kids have to be retaught is that I'VE BEEN TEACHING THEM. -- CatherineJohnson - 25 Apr 2006
That launched us on a ludicrous round of grammar-sparring when the math chair said, "You were informed," and I said, "Please don't use the passive voice," and she said, "You were sent an email," and I said, "Please don't use the passive voice," and etc. HA! You suppose she knew what you meant? Passive voice drives me nuts... it's actually a sort of appeal to authority in the absence of authority. You can always bat it back. Who informed me? Who sent the email? etc. -- CarolynJohnston - 25 Apr 2006
Its time to march over there with the Singapore math placement test or the CMC posttest in hand and find out first hand who's been taught what and how well. it's actually a sort of appeal to authority in the absence of authority This is modern education in a nut shell. -- KDeRosa - 25 Apr 2006
"Children are "responsible" for their learning." Did they actually say this? Children are responsible for doing what they are told in school and for homework, with the least help or intervention by parents. If parents have to help kids with schoolwork or homework, something is seriously wrong. Teachers are responsible to make sure that this work adds up to learning and meeting the goals of a proper curriculum, and they have to test and deal with student difficulties in learning. In the early grades (K-8), it is not the student's job to evaluate and fix their learning problems. In high school, perhaps, one can require more initiative by the student to go to the teacher for help, but a teacher should not let kids sink or swim. In college, it can and should be different. Professors should not have to chase after students to help them when things go wrong. (Small colleges are better at this than the large ones.) This doesn't mean that there is no onus on the professor to help all kids learn the material. When I taught college math and computer science, I told the students that I was on their side. I wanted to be able to give them all A's. I would do whatever extra I could, but I wasn't going to chase after them. -- SteveH - 25 Apr 2006
As for this current problem, I guess my reaction is that it is a tough case to argue about general teaching content and process using a specific student. If you try to expand the specific data set of one to other "anecdotes", it is easy for the school to dismiss them. I ran into this problem with my frustrating meeting and email exchange with a school committee member. It revolved around both what the school could do (with respect to Differentiated Instruction) for our son and our disagreement over their curriculum and educational philosophy. All of our specific complaints about what happened to our son in first grade ended up as: "I'm sorry you had a bad experience." - meaning that other kids did just fine. In other words, I wanted to talk about systemic problems, and she wanted to see it as a local issue. When I tried to bolster my case (e.g. 25% of the kids go to other schools plus many, many other points), they were easily deflected. Once again, I failed to realize that there is little to no process for change within the system. I can be and have been easily ignored. My advice is to separate Christopher from the general education battle, even if his problems relate to global issues. You have to argue the larger educational issues without him. For Christopher, the arguments have to be more specific, within the context of the current educational system and current teachers. One of my friends brought his two kids back to the public schools and just dealt with the situation. (doing a lot of teaching at home) I expect he gave the school plenty of grief, but his focus was on getting the best education for his sons within the current context, not fixing the ills of public schools. -- SteveH - 25 Apr 2006
Catherine, I think what you really wanted to say to the teacher was, "Don't deflect -- genuflect!" LOL. -- BrendaM - 25 Apr 2006
I am sure Irvington MS loves Bloom. Additional Bloom suggestions: Give a pre-test and review at the beginning of a semester those essential, basic facts, skills, concepts that are necessary to later success. Give two chances to succeed on each quiz/final exam. [Bloom's not sure whether you should take the average or the better of two scores.] But he is sure you should reteach the areas missed in the first test...use a different explanation/example/demonstration than the first time or a different style of instruction [e.g., coop. learning vs. direct instruction]. Then use a different form of the test. -- SmartestTractor - 25 Apr 2006
HA! You suppose she knew what you meant? Passive voice drives me nuts... it's actually a sort of appeal to authority in the absence of authority. You can always bat it back. Who informed me? Who sent the email? etc. oh of course she didn't know what I meant - although it did get her flummoxed, I must say for awhile she was obviously not quite grokking what I was even saying (and why would she????? talk about off-topic) then at some point she seemed to stop and try to think of what it was I wanted her to say - what kind of verb formulation it would be - and she couldn't come up with it! At that point I decided to STOP BEING INSANE -- CatherineJohnson - 25 Apr 2006
Actually, batting it back might have been a decent idea; I would have had to just keep going.....she had answers to the whole thing - Ms. K sent the email, etc - but if I'd been stubborn enough I could have wound us both around a tree another tree -- CatherineJohnson - 25 Apr 2006
it's actually a sort of appeal to authority in the absence of authority This is modern education in a nut shell. yes, exactly no one has actually acted; there is no agent AND I am the ever-clueless subject of the action blech -- CatherineJohnson - 25 Apr 2006
Did they actually say this? I wish I'd had the presence of mind to take notes. She said something quite close to this; she may have actually said, 'Children are responsible for their learning.' darn She said, distinctly, that the teacher is responsible for teaching material clearly, and for informally checking, through classroom discussion and work, that children understand what has been taught everything else, she said, is the student's responsibility she also said, when she was telling me what an excellent teacher Ms. K is, that she had observed Ms. K, that her explanations are clear, and that when she talked to children in the class it was clear to her that they understood what Ms. K had said I think it's fair to say that she believes children are responsible for their own learning when the teacher has been clear and when has done some informal assessment during class time. -- CatherineJohnson - 25 Apr 2006
Its time to march over there with the Singapore math placement test or the CMC posttest in hand and find out first hand who's been taught what and how well. no kidding -- CatherineJohnson - 25 Apr 2006
actually, back up that wouldn't work so well because parents are doing so much reteaching (I'm going to give him that test, though) -- CatherineJohnson - 25 Apr 2006
When I taught college math and computer science, I told the students that I was on their side. I wanted to be able to give them all A's. I would do whatever extra I could, but I wasn't going to chase after them. That is my dream professor. -- CatherineJohnson - 25 Apr 2006
I guess my reaction is that it is a tough case to argue about general teaching content and process using a specific student well....I'm not sure I follow you, but I tend to think that a) where there's smoke there's fire (how likely is a Big Problem like ours to be happening to Only One Child Out All The Children and b) the math chair, I think, really ought to be looking at what's going on. They're committed to teaching each and every kid; they need to perform some kind of serious anlysis to find out why Christopher's parents are reteaching material at night - rather than suggest maybe he doesn't belong in Phase 4. -- CatherineJohnson - 25 Apr 2006
Don't deflect -- genuflect yes! -- CatherineJohnson - 25 Apr 2006
Smartest Tractor who is Bloom??? Did you post about him before?? Did he write a post about Gambill???? -- CatherineJohnson - 25 Apr 2006
Steve it's hopeless (I DIDN'T SAY THAT!) Actually, I got the listserv set up today; I'm writing the description (with input from others....) We definitely need some open-and-anonymous discussion of these issues. That will stir the pot. -- CatherineJohnson - 25 Apr 2006
Catherine Benjamin Bloom, the Charles H. Swift Distinguished Service Professor Emeritus in Education, whose research transformed education. The man behind Bloom's Taxonomy. I have never posted about him before. His work probably influenced Gambill. -- SmartestTractor - 25 Apr 2006
Catherine, I still say that you need to take Mrs. Kahl's test on areas and correct it in a different color ink and send it to Mrs. Kahl, the prinicipal and the math chair. Then let them tell you what a wonderful teacher she is. -- AnneDwyer - 26 Apr 2006
"I still say that you need to take Mrs. Kahl's test on areas and correct it in a different color ink and send it to Mrs. Kahl, the prinicipal and the math chair. Then let them tell you what a wonderful teacher she is." I agree. Should be posted on this blog and the Yahoo group as well. -- VerghisKoshi - 26 Apr 2006
"I still say that you need to take Mrs. Kahl's test on areas and correct it in a different color ink and send it to Mrs. Kahl, the prinicipal and the math chair. Then let them tell you what a wonderful teacher she is." I agree. Should be posted on this blog and the Yahoo group as well. Actually, that's in The Plan. I will post again here - good idea (hadn't thought of that). Thanks for reminding me, though....I'm sending the department chair Gambill method &, I think, two of Willingham's articles - the one on flexible knowledge & one on children not knowing what they don't know. I'll include the right triangle with the package. I wish I could remember what happened with my neighbor last year. Ms. Kahl gave a test in which she didn't know what an equation was. IIRC, she thought an expression was an equation (I could be wrong). My neighbor was back and forth with her on email; same rigid stuff. -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
I'll send that to everyone; I sent this latest email to everyone. Ed says at this point she'll get tenure JUST BECAUSE we want her not to get tenure. Talked to another kid tonight.....his 7th grade English teacher wears shorts to class, and puts his leg up on the back of the kids' seats while they're working on their writing, then leans in towards them so that his testicles are in their faces. The kids can see the outline of his b****. He 'comes on' to the girls in the class; this is the children's perception. I'm sure he believes he does no such thing. Doesn't matter. The fact is, his students perceive him to be coming onto the girls. The kids believe that he was moved down from 8th grade to 6th grade because he was pursuing the 8th grade girls. They believe he was then moved back to 7th grade 'for good behavior.' None of this may be true. What concerns me is that the kids universally perceive this to be true. The other 7th grade English teacher is a guy who is 'always sarcastic.' I said, 'So the choice is between testicles in your face or sarcasm.' Christian said, "I'm a sarcasm man." -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
yes, the bad triangle Old Grouch drew will be posted to the Yahoo group. It may be a repeater. -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
-- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
let's see..... 102 + 32 = 109 Right? Line segment BE would have to be the square root of 109, yes? It would have to be approximately 10.45? -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
the whole thing is incredible; it really is I haven't sent this to her, or to her putative superiors, because I didn't want to hurt her feelings meanwhile she's basically demolished Christopher, and she's made my life a living he** Christopher will survive, and I've no doubt learned all kinds of cool things about teaching math that I wouldn't have learned if I hadn't had to spend time figuring out why this course is so bad but at this point I think I can stop worrying about how embarrassing this is going to be -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
Bloom's taxonomy is big in ed school and used by educationists to justify their hostility to knowledge. It's the source of the constant prattle about "higher-order thining skills." I wrote about this phenomenon here: http://instructivist.blogspot.com/2005/03/critical-thinking-mania.html -- CharlesH - 26 Apr 2006
This is so exciting! (Bloom, I mean!)
-- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
I'm totally confused. I'm going to instructivist now. -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
oh, so this is another appropriation of good work by bad constructivists.....yes? I saw the post by Rita Kramer! I have a terrific passage from her book to post on ktm.... -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
I'm finally realizing the Full Horror of the abandonment of the 'self esteem' movement for 'character education.' Character education is entirely punitive in nature, as far as I can see. It also appears to be fundamentally anti-boy. Character education seems to come out of Columbine; it seems also to be associated with 'zero-tolerance' policies, which typically ensnare boys engaging in boy behavior. Character education is a horror. At the Irvington Middle School we have character education across the curriculum. It is INTEGRATED. -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
a recent research review by Marvin Berkowitz and Melinda Bier of the University of Missouri (at St. Louis) found that the most common topic in today’s character education programs is “social-emotional content”—in particular, what they call “personal improvement/self-management and awareness (self-control, goal setting, relaxation techniques, self-awareness, emotional awareness).” EDUCATION NEXT -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
I guess my reaction is that it is a tough case to argue about general teaching content and process using a specific student "well....I'm not sure I follow you, ..." In the case of my son, there were two separate, but overlapping issues. How does their concept of Differentiated Instruction apply to our son specifically, and why their curriculum and expectations are too low for many kids. The first is a specific problem of implementation and the second is a systemic or philosophical question. The school could not, or would not, see the issues with our son as part of a larger, fundamental problem. It was impossible to use my son as a very typical example of why 25% of the kids go to other schools. If I brought in examples from other parents to prove a connection, they all became anecdotal. (I'll see your anecdote and raise you two anecdotes.) In some ways, they will admit to difficulties, but they are always working on it and, of course, many kids do just fine. They will never admit to fundamental flaws. -- SteveH - 26 Apr 2006
It was impossible to use my son as a very typical example of why 25% of the kids go to other schools. If I brought in examples from other parents to prove a connection, they all became anecdotal. (I'll see your anecdote and raise you two anecdotes.) oh, right yes, I follow we hope to address this with the Irvington listserv typically, when parents raise concerns here, we are told "You are the only one who has complained." The math department chair said this to me even after an open parent revolt just one year earlier. It should be obvious to all that Ed and I are lodging the exact same complaints parents lodged last year. And yet we're told that we are 'the only ones.' The math chair also told me, in a sharp and 'teacherly' tone, that I 'could not speak' for other parents, and she would not listen to me if I did. Here in Irvington, sharp limits are placed on parent speech. We 'cannot speak' for other parents, and they, meaning the administraiont, 'cannot speak' about personnel. Once you accept those ground rules, you've pretty much conceded your case. -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
YAHOO allows one to take quick, informal polls. -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
My favorite you're-the-only-one experience this year was Scott Fried telling us he'd checked with Ms. Kahl and she had told him that Christopher was 'the only child' having trouble following directions about showing his work. Two weeks later I talked to Christopher's friend M., and he had received the exact same 20-point deduction. -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
One of the parents who's involved in the Yahoo listserv told me that she, too, had written a letter to the music teacher. She said she wished she'd known about my own email at the time, because we were saying the same thing. -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
I'm guessing that the listserv, assuming people join (which I think they will), will be good feedback for everyone. If half of Ms. Kahl's class is having trouble understanding her directions on tests, parents will know, and the administration will know we know. If I discovered, via the listserv, that Christopher really was the only child having trouble, that would be extremely valuable information - and I'd start seriously figuring out what it meant and what to do about it. We have almost a perfect no-feedback/bad-feedback system of communications at the IMS. As parents, we have essentially no idea what Christopher's mediocre grades mean. -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
About the area problem, I assume that the green ink is Ms. Kahl's? I see that Chris got 24/30, right? But I only see -2 points. Where did he lose the other 4 points? How was it graded? So many points for this figure, so many for that? Also if the height of the left triangle is 3, then the long side is sqrt(109); if it's 4, then sqrt(116). So you're right, the 12 is bogus. -- VerghisKoshi - 27 Apr 2006
The 12 has to be bogus. I see two interpretations of the 12 cm.
we never know how she's calculating her grades, and she doesn't tell us we don't know the English teacher calculates her grades, either -- CatherineJohnson - 27 Apr 2006
All of the handwriting is Ms. Kahl's. If you look at the big, huge numerals at the bottom, that's Christopher's handwriting. -- CatherineJohnson - 27 Apr 2006
I want to make sure I understand this thing before I start emailing it around.... 42 + 132 = AE2 (right?) 16 + 169 = 185 So AE has to equal square root of 185 -- CatherineJohnson - 27 Apr 2006
It looks like the 12cm applies to the hypotenuse, right? This is Phase 4 math with Ms. Kahl we have no idea what she's doing and it's our fault -- CatherineJohnson - 27 Apr 2006
Catherine, You're right, AE = sqrt(185). -- VerghisKoshi - 27 Apr 2006
"we never know how she's calculating her grades, and she doesn't tell us" I was trying to say that it's a valid question to ask her. It can't be capricious, so where are the supporting guidelines? -- VerghisKoshi - 27 Apr 2006
I was trying to say that it's a valid question to ask her. It can't be capricious, so where are the supporting guidelines? ok, now you've got me revved to find & post the questions I'd been planning to ask about the 20-point deduction.... -- CatherineJohnson - 27 Apr 2006
Here's the direction: For every item in your room, there must be a calculation for its area, including the formulas used. These calculations are to be done on a separate piece of paper and attached to the blueprint. No calculations are to be done on the blueprint.
Here are my questions (haven't edited & sent this particular Email To Whomever): .... we don’t know which mental calculations Ms. K wanted Christopher to write down:
I'm going to have to scan the assignment in ..... I would have 'shown more work' than Ed had Christopher do (Ed had him show no work at all, as far as I can tell)....but I have no idea what would have been 'right.' Plus her comment, "What dimensions did you use?" makes no sense to me, since the scale is clearly shown on the drawing and all objects are labeled.... Certainly, with Ms. K, one needs to obsessively show work. The fact that Ed and Christopher had already put 4 hours into this thing on vacation should not have been a deterrent. What's another couple of hours spent slavishly writing down mental math when you're having fun? -- CatherineJohnson - 27 Apr 2006
Oh... I get it. She wanted him to ignore the 12cm and use the 1/2 * base * height formula for the area of the big triangle, rather than break that triangle up into two smaller right triangles. In her green corrections, she's written "one triangle", and she's labeled the "base" and the "height". As for the missing 4 points, it's possible she took off those 4 points for the missing (sorry!) "show your work" and "show all formulas". It's apparent from the scribbled-out sections that Christopher calculated the area of each sub-figure separately and then added them, drawing a squiggle through each sub-figure after calculating its area. But he doesn't show how either the area of each sub-figure or what formula he used to get it. I think she may have been looking for something like this:
WAIT! before I go sending this off to anyone, is her figure right or wrong? or is the problem that it's labeled in a confusing manner? Can triangle ACE be correctly drawn? oops - sorry: I've confused two assignments the 20 points off was on the scale model drawing, not this test -- CatherineJohnson - 28 Apr 2006
Catherine, Don't forget, also, that CE is incorrect. Since CD is parallel to EF, then the line from CD to EF would also have to be 10 cm (same as CE). However, that would give you a right triangle with sides 10 and 3 and hypotenuse 14, which is not possible. That whole middle part of the problem is an incredible mess of numbers that don't jibe. -- AnneDwyer - 28 Apr 2006
GM said: Oh... I get it. She wanted him to ignore the 12cm and use the 1/2 * base * height formula for the area of the big triangle, rather than break that triangle up into two smaller right triangles. In her green corrections, she's written "one triangle", and she's labeled the "base" and the "height". (1) The 12cm is bogus no matter how we look at it. (2) How did she indicate that she wanted him to ignore the 12cm? The green corrections are after the fact, so to speak. (3) What two small right triangles? I only see one, since the 3cm line looks like a continuation of line DC, not the height of the large triangle. (4) Besides, lacking instructions, a correct answer should be acceptable no matter the method. Unless I'm missing something... -- VerghisKoshi - 28 Apr 2006
(1) Yes, I agree that the 12 cm is bogus. Also, as Anne pointed out, there are other bogus numbers in the diagram. Basically, the numbers don't work in Euclidean 2D. (2) She didn't indicate in the diagram beforehand. Chris was supposed to read her mind, I guess. If the segment lengths had been valid, then the triangle's area could have been solved in any of several ways, including 1/2 bh of the big triangle, or sum of (1/2 bh of each of the two smaller triangles that are formed by the dotted 3cm line). (3) I'm referring to the small hand-sketched right triangle that has one 3cm side that is the continuation of DC, with a perpendicular over to A. (4) If the answer isn't correct, and the student has provided only squiggly lines and a final answer, then the teacher has no idea where the student went wrong, and on what topics he needs reiteration/reinforcement. (For that matter, how did she know that he was "missing area of parallelogram"? Did she guess that because it didn't have a squiggle?) Of course, point (4) would hold more weight if the diagram had been correct, which is obviously not true in this case. This diagram is so fubared as to be rendered unsolvable. Either the measurements are wrong, or some angles are incorrectly marked as right angles, or some combination of that. The only thing clear on the assignment is that she wanted to see the formulas that were used to come up with the answer. -- GoogleMaster - 28 Apr 2006
"(3) I'm referring to the small hand-sketched right triangle that has one 3cm side that is the continuation of DC, with a perpendicular over to A." Tough to discuss this over blog comments, but I think Ms. Kahl wanted the area of triangle ACE, which is composed of ACB and BCE. ACB is straightforward, but BCE a scalene triangle, correct? Hard to get its height. And the 3cm line that continues DC to the left edge of the triangle doesn't meet the edge at a right angle. Maybe Ms. Kahl, freed from the shackles of Euclidean 2D, was thinking of 4D curved space-time? -- VerghisKoshi - 28 Apr 2006
Grr! Sorry, BCE is a right triangle, ACB is scalene. -- VerghisKoshi - 28 Apr 2006
Yes, it is tough to discuss without being able to point and wave my hands at you. :) I think you're right, she wanted the area of ACE. However, I think by her comment "one triangle" and her labeling of "height" and "base" that she wanted the students to calculate the area of ACE directly, in one shot, using 1/2 * base * height, rather than as the sum of the area of ACB and BCE. -- GoogleMaster - 28 Apr 2006
...but don't have the height, right? 3cm is not the height. -- VerghisKoshi - 28 Apr 2006
Sorry, wasn't clear, no problem calculating area of the large triangle. I was trying to say that I don't see a way to calculate the area of the small scalene triangle. -- VerghisKoshi - 28 Apr 2006
Chris was supposed to read her mind, I guess. The entire course is one long exercise in mind-reading, or else points-off-off-off! -- CatherineJohnson - 29 Apr 2006
I'm not kidding. These people have yet to encounter relativism, unfortunately. Ms. K and the principal (and the math chair) all think that words like "show your work" can have only one possible meaning. Actually, scratch 'relativism.' None of them can write. They have no idea that it's possible to write directions other intelligent human beings will not be able to follow. Hence we are arrogant, non-rule-following jerks for protesting. -- CatherineJohnson - 29 Apr 2006
boy oh boy, have we seen the big fat Middle School Explanatory Fallacy in action around here. If a child is having problems, the explanation for those problems can be located in the child and/or in the parents. Period. -- CatherineJohnson - 29 Apr 2006
We've managed to throw them a curve by pounding away at the reality that our child, who is earning 'Bs,' is having problems. That gives them pause, but it doesn't shake their faith that the problems come from the child not from them. -- CatherineJohnson - 29 Apr 2006
"...it doesn't shake their faith..." From Yeats, "The Second Coming": "The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity." Is a puzzlement. I done thought the teachers were the cream of the crop. Of course I wasn't smart enough to ask which crop. -- VerghisKoshi - 30 Apr 2006
Verghis, you are bad -- CatherineJohnson - 01 May 2006
news from nowhere, part 4
I spoke to the math chair. Mostly bad. I was hostile, short-tempered, and unpleasant. That always helps.
oops - arguing with Ed on the phone; back in a sec
OK, argument finished. One of the many bonus sidelights of having your child stuck in a bad school is that you get to fight with your husband about whether you will or will not be homeschooling next year. Anyway, back on topic.
the jist Christopher is responsible for knowing what he knows and doesn't know. Christopher was given a choice, Christopher "insisted" he was ready, other children who flunked the test didn't get a do-over, it would be unfair if Christopher got a second chance and they didn't. (Other children who flunked? Ms. Kahl is a "fine young teacher" and there are other children who flunked?) Children are "responsible" for their learning. If I am doing so much reteaching, then "maybe Christopher doesn't belong in Phase 4. Maybe he would do better in Phase 3." I "can't speak" for other parents, only for myself. She "can speak" for Ms. Kahl, because she has directly witnessed Ms. Kahl's class; she has seen that Ms. Kahl explains concepts clearly and the children understand. I "can't speak" for other parents; she will not listen to my account of Massive Tutoring in Irvington because anything I have to report is "hearsay." I am the "only parent who has complained about Ms. Kahl." The fact that a teeming Mongol horde of Irvington parents openly revolted against Ms. Kahl's teaching last year has nothing to do with this year. "That was a different group of parents and a different group of kids." She does not work for me, I do not pay her salary, she is "insulted" that I would say such a thing. (Yes, I said, "I pay your salary.") I think that about covers it.
getting a grip At some point I managed to get a grip. When I got a grip, I managed to take some of the responsibility off of her shoulders. I said that the problems we're having with Ms. Kahl are problems we're having with the school in general, though not with all of Christopher's teachers. Phase 4 math is a difficult class, so that's where the worst trouble crops up. I said that I was asking her, as a favor, to assume that when I tell her other parents are reteaching and tutoring their children, I am conveying information, not hearsay. She agreed. I think she meant it. I did manage to think on my feet when she suggested Christopher belonged in Phase 3. I quoted the Irvington Mission statement - every child should reach his full potential or some such - and said that a 'solution' that involves having children learn less math when they are capable of learning more math does not fulfill the mission. We were still in hostile mode at that point, and her response was, "That is your opinion." harrumph
tactical aside I am quite possibly the least strategic thinker on the planet, but my sense is that parents whose kids a) aren't behavior problems and b) are doing fairly well in school are going to have to take the lead on these issues. Christopher talks too much in class, but he's only been to the principal's office once in his entire K-6 career. His scores are high and his grades are actually fine - though we're going through bloody h*** to get him those grades - which means that teachers and administrators can't resort to arguments about his ability or behavior. They can, but they don't believe it themselves. Back on topic: if we're keeping score, and I suppose we are, the exchange concerning Phase 3 - Phase 4 was the one clear win for me. You simply can't argue that a kid belongs in slow-track math when he's got straight Bs in fast-track math, no matter how much reteaching his mother is doing at home. The logic doesn't hold, and everyone knows that kids are being tutored if only because it's Irvington teachers being hired to do the tutoring. Plus if Christopher were to move down to Phase 3 from Phase 4 with a B average he would be the first child in the history of the school to do so. So that went nowhere.
metacognition I made headway on the metacognitive issue. At least, I think I did. She said that when kids don't do well on her tests, she asks them, 'Why didn't you tell me you didn't understand?' and she tells them to come in for extra help. I said, 'And then what happens? Do you retest?' That was probably a moment of actual communication. She was silent, and she sounded silent in a thinking way, not an exasperated way. (Apparently I believe I can read silences on the telephone. Talk about not knowing what you don't know.) I said that I had always thought exactly as she thought. Until I read the literature on metacognition, I believed that children know what they do and don't know. I thought a good teacher explained the material well, tested the children on the material, and had the children who didn't do well on the test come in for extra help. I pointed out that adults also find it difficult to know what they don't know, and said that I frequently believe I understand a concept or procedure in math, and only discover that I don't when I test myself. That was our one 'good' moment. At least, it felt OK to me.
paradigm shift The idea that schools should be responsible for children's learning is a paradigm shift. I know this, and I need to act like I know it. People don't change their practice overnight because some parent in the school has read Dan Willingham's articles in AMERICAN EDUCATOR. I asked her to read Carol Gambill's description of her teaching method, and she said she would. I'll send her Dan Willingham's articles on flexible knowledge and metacognition, too. And that will do for now.
this will amuse you As usual with this school, there is a gaping failure to communicate. Apparently Ms. Kahl gave Christopher some kind of extra credit assignment he could do to make up for the 'F,' and has in fact restored 1/3 of the points lost,* but there's a problem because Christopher has not turned in his extra credit assignment, it's late, he's missed a deadline, etc. (blame-shifting! I know it well!)** That launched us on a ludicrous round of grammar-sparring when the math chair said, "You were informed," and I said, "Please don't use the passive voice," and she said, "You were sent an email," and I said, "Please don't use the passive voice," and etc. Good god. What was I thinking? (I was thinking I loathe being on the receiving end of Teacher Passive Voice Buck-passing, actually.) Then we almost got into an argument about whether I had or had not opened the email I "was sent." The math chair said I had, and offered some kind of evidence for this assertion, at which point I probably said, "Just give him an F."
* Would that have been a good moment to say, 'I appreciate that very much, thank you'? Yes. Did I do it? No. learn from my example, people! ** I asked Christopher about it, and he doesn't know what Ms. Kahl is talking about. Neither do I. I am SO sick of having no idea what teachers in this school are talking about. You were informed! Well, OK, maybe I WAS informed! But obviously I'm not informed now, AM I? So ENLIGHTEN ME, why don't you?
email to the math chair
cordial
email to the math teacher, part 1
Irvington Math Chair
follow-up to math chair
peer grading
extra credit
-- CatherineJohnson - 24 Apr 2006 Back to main page.
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Christopher is responsible for knowing what he knows and doesn't know. You can make kids responsible for supporting a family of four if you want, but how do you expect it to turn out? -- CarolynJohnston - 24 Apr 2006
You can make kids responsible for supporting a family of four if you want, but how do you expect it to turn out? Hey! I wish I'd thought of that! -- CatherineJohnson - 24 Apr 2006
Was it the Phase 4 kids' parents that revolted or another group? If I am doing so much reteaching, then perhaps Christopher does not belong in Phase 4. Or perhaps something is wrong with the teaching, or something is wrong with the curriculum. They're so on the defensive that they can't even consider these other things. -- SusanS - 24 Apr 2006
It was the Phase 4 parents JUST LAST YEAR. It was huge. It was a massive parent revolt. They had to hold a full-to-overflow meeting with enraged parents. One parent was actually crying. Now they're giving the teacher who provoked this rebellion tenure. -- CatherineJohnson - 24 Apr 2006
They're so on the defensive that they can't even consider these other things. I don't know how to analyze U.S. public schools. First of all, I acted and sounded l like an a******. Not a COMPLETE a******, but close enough. Thank God I managed to change course midstream. Nobody considers what their responsibility might be when they're under attack. That said......schools don't consider what their responsibility might be, period. -- CatherineJohnson - 24 Apr 2006
I almost think you need Freud to create a whole new category of defense mechnism: 'blame-shifting,' or 'evading accountability,' or something. They have it down to an art; they're so good at it they don't have to think to do it. That's what set me off about the Teacher Passive Voice. Passive voice is used (IS USED - LISTEN TO ME!) to avoid acknowledging agency. The instant a teacher or administrator is going to dump on a parent, they shift into passive voice. -- CatherineJohnson - 24 Apr 2006
….she will not listen to my account of Massive Tutoring in Irvington because anything I have to report is ‘hearsay’. Actually everything both of you said was hearsay, as it’s not spoken in court under oath. If you know families who are tutoring, you have direct knowledge of a fact. If someone has told you that someone else is tutoring, then you have it second hand (which is what I think she meant). -- BenCalvin - 24 Apr 2006
If you know families who are tutoring, you have direct knowledge of a fact. If someone has told you that someone else is tutoring, then you have it second hand (which is what I think she meant). Is that how it works? She seemed to be saying that the fact that other parents have told me they've hired tutors was hearsay. But maybe not. Her definition seemed to be that I would had to have been in someone else's home watching their child be tutored or 'afterschooled' in order not to be reporting hearsay. -- CatherineJohnson - 25 Apr 2006
The whole thing is ludicrous. It's part of the isolate-and-marginalize-the-individual-parent tactic. 'You're the only parent who's complained.' 'Your child is the only one who's having problems.' etc. -- CatherineJohnson - 25 Apr 2006
I realized after I hung up that the reason I know other kids have to be retaught is that I'VE BEEN TEACHING THEM. -- CatherineJohnson - 25 Apr 2006
That launched us on a ludicrous round of grammar-sparring when the math chair said, "You were informed," and I said, "Please don't use the passive voice," and she said, "You were sent an email," and I said, "Please don't use the passive voice," and etc. HA! You suppose she knew what you meant? Passive voice drives me nuts... it's actually a sort of appeal to authority in the absence of authority. You can always bat it back. Who informed me? Who sent the email? etc. -- CarolynJohnston - 25 Apr 2006
Its time to march over there with the Singapore math placement test or the CMC posttest in hand and find out first hand who's been taught what and how well. it's actually a sort of appeal to authority in the absence of authority This is modern education in a nut shell. -- KDeRosa - 25 Apr 2006
"Children are "responsible" for their learning." Did they actually say this? Children are responsible for doing what they are told in school and for homework, with the least help or intervention by parents. If parents have to help kids with schoolwork or homework, something is seriously wrong. Teachers are responsible to make sure that this work adds up to learning and meeting the goals of a proper curriculum, and they have to test and deal with student difficulties in learning. In the early grades (K-8), it is not the student's job to evaluate and fix their learning problems. In high school, perhaps, one can require more initiative by the student to go to the teacher for help, but a teacher should not let kids sink or swim. In college, it can and should be different. Professors should not have to chase after students to help them when things go wrong. (Small colleges are better at this than the large ones.) This doesn't mean that there is no onus on the professor to help all kids learn the material. When I taught college math and computer science, I told the students that I was on their side. I wanted to be able to give them all A's. I would do whatever extra I could, but I wasn't going to chase after them. -- SteveH - 25 Apr 2006
As for this current problem, I guess my reaction is that it is a tough case to argue about general teaching content and process using a specific student. If you try to expand the specific data set of one to other "anecdotes", it is easy for the school to dismiss them. I ran into this problem with my frustrating meeting and email exchange with a school committee member. It revolved around both what the school could do (with respect to Differentiated Instruction) for our son and our disagreement over their curriculum and educational philosophy. All of our specific complaints about what happened to our son in first grade ended up as: "I'm sorry you had a bad experience." - meaning that other kids did just fine. In other words, I wanted to talk about systemic problems, and she wanted to see it as a local issue. When I tried to bolster my case (e.g. 25% of the kids go to other schools plus many, many other points), they were easily deflected. Once again, I failed to realize that there is little to no process for change within the system. I can be and have been easily ignored. My advice is to separate Christopher from the general education battle, even if his problems relate to global issues. You have to argue the larger educational issues without him. For Christopher, the arguments have to be more specific, within the context of the current educational system and current teachers. One of my friends brought his two kids back to the public schools and just dealt with the situation. (doing a lot of teaching at home) I expect he gave the school plenty of grief, but his focus was on getting the best education for his sons within the current context, not fixing the ills of public schools. -- SteveH - 25 Apr 2006
Catherine, I think what you really wanted to say to the teacher was, "Don't deflect -- genuflect!" LOL. -- BrendaM - 25 Apr 2006
I am sure Irvington MS loves Bloom. Additional Bloom suggestions: Give a pre-test and review at the beginning of a semester those essential, basic facts, skills, concepts that are necessary to later success. Give two chances to succeed on each quiz/final exam. [Bloom's not sure whether you should take the average or the better of two scores.] But he is sure you should reteach the areas missed in the first test...use a different explanation/example/demonstration than the first time or a different style of instruction [e.g., coop. learning vs. direct instruction]. Then use a different form of the test. -- SmartestTractor - 25 Apr 2006
HA! You suppose she knew what you meant? Passive voice drives me nuts... it's actually a sort of appeal to authority in the absence of authority. You can always bat it back. Who informed me? Who sent the email? etc. oh of course she didn't know what I meant - although it did get her flummoxed, I must say for awhile she was obviously not quite grokking what I was even saying (and why would she????? talk about off-topic) then at some point she seemed to stop and try to think of what it was I wanted her to say - what kind of verb formulation it would be - and she couldn't come up with it! At that point I decided to STOP BEING INSANE -- CatherineJohnson - 25 Apr 2006
Actually, batting it back might have been a decent idea; I would have had to just keep going.....she had answers to the whole thing - Ms. K sent the email, etc - but if I'd been stubborn enough I could have wound us both around a tree another tree -- CatherineJohnson - 25 Apr 2006
it's actually a sort of appeal to authority in the absence of authority This is modern education in a nut shell. yes, exactly no one has actually acted; there is no agent AND I am the ever-clueless subject of the action blech -- CatherineJohnson - 25 Apr 2006
Did they actually say this? I wish I'd had the presence of mind to take notes. She said something quite close to this; she may have actually said, 'Children are responsible for their learning.' darn She said, distinctly, that the teacher is responsible for teaching material clearly, and for informally checking, through classroom discussion and work, that children understand what has been taught everything else, she said, is the student's responsibility she also said, when she was telling me what an excellent teacher Ms. K is, that she had observed Ms. K, that her explanations are clear, and that when she talked to children in the class it was clear to her that they understood what Ms. K had said I think it's fair to say that she believes children are responsible for their own learning when the teacher has been clear and when has done some informal assessment during class time. -- CatherineJohnson - 25 Apr 2006
Its time to march over there with the Singapore math placement test or the CMC posttest in hand and find out first hand who's been taught what and how well. no kidding -- CatherineJohnson - 25 Apr 2006
actually, back up that wouldn't work so well because parents are doing so much reteaching (I'm going to give him that test, though) -- CatherineJohnson - 25 Apr 2006
When I taught college math and computer science, I told the students that I was on their side. I wanted to be able to give them all A's. I would do whatever extra I could, but I wasn't going to chase after them. That is my dream professor. -- CatherineJohnson - 25 Apr 2006
I guess my reaction is that it is a tough case to argue about general teaching content and process using a specific student well....I'm not sure I follow you, but I tend to think that a) where there's smoke there's fire (how likely is a Big Problem like ours to be happening to Only One Child Out All The Children and b) the math chair, I think, really ought to be looking at what's going on. They're committed to teaching each and every kid; they need to perform some kind of serious anlysis to find out why Christopher's parents are reteaching material at night - rather than suggest maybe he doesn't belong in Phase 4. -- CatherineJohnson - 25 Apr 2006
Don't deflect -- genuflect yes! -- CatherineJohnson - 25 Apr 2006
Smartest Tractor who is Bloom??? Did you post about him before?? Did he write a post about Gambill???? -- CatherineJohnson - 25 Apr 2006
Steve it's hopeless (I DIDN'T SAY THAT!) Actually, I got the listserv set up today; I'm writing the description (with input from others....) We definitely need some open-and-anonymous discussion of these issues. That will stir the pot. -- CatherineJohnson - 25 Apr 2006
Catherine Benjamin Bloom, the Charles H. Swift Distinguished Service Professor Emeritus in Education, whose research transformed education. The man behind Bloom's Taxonomy. I have never posted about him before. His work probably influenced Gambill. -- SmartestTractor - 25 Apr 2006
Catherine, I still say that you need to take Mrs. Kahl's test on areas and correct it in a different color ink and send it to Mrs. Kahl, the prinicipal and the math chair. Then let them tell you what a wonderful teacher she is. -- AnneDwyer - 26 Apr 2006
"I still say that you need to take Mrs. Kahl's test on areas and correct it in a different color ink and send it to Mrs. Kahl, the prinicipal and the math chair. Then let them tell you what a wonderful teacher she is." I agree. Should be posted on this blog and the Yahoo group as well. -- VerghisKoshi - 26 Apr 2006
"I still say that you need to take Mrs. Kahl's test on areas and correct it in a different color ink and send it to Mrs. Kahl, the prinicipal and the math chair. Then let them tell you what a wonderful teacher she is." I agree. Should be posted on this blog and the Yahoo group as well. Actually, that's in The Plan. I will post again here - good idea (hadn't thought of that). Thanks for reminding me, though....I'm sending the department chair Gambill method &, I think, two of Willingham's articles - the one on flexible knowledge & one on children not knowing what they don't know. I'll include the right triangle with the package. I wish I could remember what happened with my neighbor last year. Ms. Kahl gave a test in which she didn't know what an equation was. IIRC, she thought an expression was an equation (I could be wrong). My neighbor was back and forth with her on email; same rigid stuff. -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
I'll send that to everyone; I sent this latest email to everyone. Ed says at this point she'll get tenure JUST BECAUSE we want her not to get tenure. Talked to another kid tonight.....his 7th grade English teacher wears shorts to class, and puts his leg up on the back of the kids' seats while they're working on their writing, then leans in towards them so that his testicles are in their faces. The kids can see the outline of his b****. He 'comes on' to the girls in the class; this is the children's perception. I'm sure he believes he does no such thing. Doesn't matter. The fact is, his students perceive him to be coming onto the girls. The kids believe that he was moved down from 8th grade to 6th grade because he was pursuing the 8th grade girls. They believe he was then moved back to 7th grade 'for good behavior.' None of this may be true. What concerns me is that the kids universally perceive this to be true. The other 7th grade English teacher is a guy who is 'always sarcastic.' I said, 'So the choice is between testicles in your face or sarcasm.' Christian said, "I'm a sarcasm man." -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
yes, the bad triangle Old Grouch drew will be posted to the Yahoo group. It may be a repeater. -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
-- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
let's see..... 102 + 32 = 109 Right? Line segment BE would have to be the square root of 109, yes? It would have to be approximately 10.45? -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
the whole thing is incredible; it really is I haven't sent this to her, or to her putative superiors, because I didn't want to hurt her feelings meanwhile she's basically demolished Christopher, and she's made my life a living he** Christopher will survive, and I've no doubt learned all kinds of cool things about teaching math that I wouldn't have learned if I hadn't had to spend time figuring out why this course is so bad but at this point I think I can stop worrying about how embarrassing this is going to be -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
Bloom's taxonomy is big in ed school and used by educationists to justify their hostility to knowledge. It's the source of the constant prattle about "higher-order thining skills." I wrote about this phenomenon here: http://instructivist.blogspot.com/2005/03/critical-thinking-mania.html -- CharlesH - 26 Apr 2006
I'm totally confused. I'm going to instructivist now. -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
oh, so this is another appropriation of good work by bad constructivists.....yes? I saw the post by Rita Kramer! I have a terrific passage from her book to post on ktm.... -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
I'm finally realizing the Full Horror of the abandonment of the 'self esteem' movement for 'character education.' Character education is entirely punitive in nature, as far as I can see. It also appears to be fundamentally anti-boy. Character education seems to come out of Columbine; it seems also to be associated with 'zero-tolerance' policies, which typically ensnare boys engaging in boy behavior. Character education is a horror. At the Irvington Middle School we have character education across the curriculum. It is INTEGRATED. -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
a recent research review by Marvin Berkowitz and Melinda Bier of the University of Missouri (at St. Louis) found that the most common topic in today’s character education programs is “social-emotional content”—in particular, what they call “personal improvement/self-management and awareness (self-control, goal setting, relaxation techniques, self-awareness, emotional awareness).” EDUCATION NEXT -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
I guess my reaction is that it is a tough case to argue about general teaching content and process using a specific student "well....I'm not sure I follow you, ..." In the case of my son, there were two separate, but overlapping issues. How does their concept of Differentiated Instruction apply to our son specifically, and why their curriculum and expectations are too low for many kids. The first is a specific problem of implementation and the second is a systemic or philosophical question. The school could not, or would not, see the issues with our son as part of a larger, fundamental problem. It was impossible to use my son as a very typical example of why 25% of the kids go to other schools. If I brought in examples from other parents to prove a connection, they all became anecdotal. (I'll see your anecdote and raise you two anecdotes.) In some ways, they will admit to difficulties, but they are always working on it and, of course, many kids do just fine. They will never admit to fundamental flaws. -- SteveH - 26 Apr 2006
It was impossible to use my son as a very typical example of why 25% of the kids go to other schools. If I brought in examples from other parents to prove a connection, they all became anecdotal. (I'll see your anecdote and raise you two anecdotes.) oh, right yes, I follow we hope to address this with the Irvington listserv typically, when parents raise concerns here, we are told "You are the only one who has complained." The math department chair said this to me even after an open parent revolt just one year earlier. It should be obvious to all that Ed and I are lodging the exact same complaints parents lodged last year. And yet we're told that we are 'the only ones.' The math chair also told me, in a sharp and 'teacherly' tone, that I 'could not speak' for other parents, and she would not listen to me if I did. Here in Irvington, sharp limits are placed on parent speech. We 'cannot speak' for other parents, and they, meaning the administraiont, 'cannot speak' about personnel. Once you accept those ground rules, you've pretty much conceded your case. -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
YAHOO allows one to take quick, informal polls. -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
My favorite you're-the-only-one experience this year was Scott Fried telling us he'd checked with Ms. Kahl and she had told him that Christopher was 'the only child' having trouble following directions about showing his work. Two weeks later I talked to Christopher's friend M., and he had received the exact same 20-point deduction. -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
One of the parents who's involved in the Yahoo listserv told me that she, too, had written a letter to the music teacher. She said she wished she'd known about my own email at the time, because we were saying the same thing. -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
I'm guessing that the listserv, assuming people join (which I think they will), will be good feedback for everyone. If half of Ms. Kahl's class is having trouble understanding her directions on tests, parents will know, and the administration will know we know. If I discovered, via the listserv, that Christopher really was the only child having trouble, that would be extremely valuable information - and I'd start seriously figuring out what it meant and what to do about it. We have almost a perfect no-feedback/bad-feedback system of communications at the IMS. As parents, we have essentially no idea what Christopher's mediocre grades mean. -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
About the area problem, I assume that the green ink is Ms. Kahl's? I see that Chris got 24/30, right? But I only see -2 points. Where did he lose the other 4 points? How was it graded? So many points for this figure, so many for that? Also if the height of the left triangle is 3, then the long side is sqrt(109); if it's 4, then sqrt(116). So you're right, the 12 is bogus. -- VerghisKoshi - 27 Apr 2006
The 12 has to be bogus. I see two interpretations of the 12 cm.
- Length of BE. This doesn't work because BC = 3, CE = 10, and angle BCE = 90 degrees means that BE = sqrt(109), as people have pointed out.
- Length of AE. This would work, giving triangle ACE sides of 5, 10, and 12; however, the small right triangle sketched above AC, with one side = 3 cm, makes that impossible. There's no way a right triangle with one non-hypotenuse side of 10 + 3 = 13 cm can have a hypotenuse of 12 cm.
we never know how she's calculating her grades, and she doesn't tell us we don't know the English teacher calculates her grades, either -- CatherineJohnson - 27 Apr 2006
All of the handwriting is Ms. Kahl's. If you look at the big, huge numerals at the bottom, that's Christopher's handwriting. -- CatherineJohnson - 27 Apr 2006
I want to make sure I understand this thing before I start emailing it around.... 42 + 132 = AE2 (right?) 16 + 169 = 185 So AE has to equal square root of 185 -- CatherineJohnson - 27 Apr 2006
It looks like the 12cm applies to the hypotenuse, right? This is Phase 4 math with Ms. Kahl we have no idea what she's doing and it's our fault -- CatherineJohnson - 27 Apr 2006
Catherine, You're right, AE = sqrt(185). -- VerghisKoshi - 27 Apr 2006
"we never know how she's calculating her grades, and she doesn't tell us" I was trying to say that it's a valid question to ask her. It can't be capricious, so where are the supporting guidelines? -- VerghisKoshi - 27 Apr 2006
I was trying to say that it's a valid question to ask her. It can't be capricious, so where are the supporting guidelines? ok, now you've got me revved to find & post the questions I'd been planning to ask about the 20-point deduction.... -- CatherineJohnson - 27 Apr 2006
Here's the direction: For every item in your room, there must be a calculation for its area, including the formulas used. These calculations are to be done on a separate piece of paper and attached to the blueprint. No calculations are to be done on the blueprint.
Here are my questions (haven't edited & sent this particular Email To Whomever): .... we don’t know which mental calculations Ms. K wanted Christopher to write down:
- Was he was supposed to write 2 x 3 = 6 (or the equivalent) for each object? If so, was he supposed to write down 2 x 3 = 6 for each one of 4 sides of a square object?
- Or: was he supposed to write 3 ÷ 1/2 = x, because each 1/2 foot on the real object was represented by one line segment on the graph?
- Or: was he supposed to set up a ratio, because this assignment was part of the chapter on ratio? Was he supposed to write: 3’/x = .5’ /1 and solve? (And then repeat for each side of each object?)
- Or: was he supposed to write 2 x 3 = 6 for each of 4 sides and then write 6 x 6 = 36, using the formula for area of a square. Was he supposed to find areas, not lengths?
I'm going to have to scan the assignment in ..... I would have 'shown more work' than Ed had Christopher do (Ed had him show no work at all, as far as I can tell)....but I have no idea what would have been 'right.' Plus her comment, "What dimensions did you use?" makes no sense to me, since the scale is clearly shown on the drawing and all objects are labeled.... Certainly, with Ms. K, one needs to obsessively show work. The fact that Ed and Christopher had already put 4 hours into this thing on vacation should not have been a deterrent. What's another couple of hours spent slavishly writing down mental math when you're having fun? -- CatherineJohnson - 27 Apr 2006
Oh... I get it. She wanted him to ignore the 12cm and use the 1/2 * base * height formula for the area of the big triangle, rather than break that triangle up into two smaller right triangles. In her green corrections, she's written "one triangle", and she's labeled the "base" and the "height". As for the missing 4 points, it's possible she took off those 4 points for the missing (sorry!) "show your work" and "show all formulas". It's apparent from the scribbled-out sections that Christopher calculated the area of each sub-figure separately and then added them, drawing a squiggle through each sub-figure after calculating its area. But he doesn't show how either the area of each sub-figure or what formula he used to get it. I think she may have been looking for something like this:
- square: 9 cm * 9 cm = 81 cm2
- rectangle: 2 cm * 15 cm = 30 cm2
- ...
- total: 81 cm2 + 30 cm2 + ... = 304 cm2
WAIT! before I go sending this off to anyone, is her figure right or wrong? or is the problem that it's labeled in a confusing manner? Can triangle ACE be correctly drawn? oops - sorry: I've confused two assignments the 20 points off was on the scale model drawing, not this test -- CatherineJohnson - 28 Apr 2006
Catherine, Don't forget, also, that CE is incorrect. Since CD is parallel to EF, then the line from CD to EF would also have to be 10 cm (same as CE). However, that would give you a right triangle with sides 10 and 3 and hypotenuse 14, which is not possible. That whole middle part of the problem is an incredible mess of numbers that don't jibe. -- AnneDwyer - 28 Apr 2006
GM said: Oh... I get it. She wanted him to ignore the 12cm and use the 1/2 * base * height formula for the area of the big triangle, rather than break that triangle up into two smaller right triangles. In her green corrections, she's written "one triangle", and she's labeled the "base" and the "height". (1) The 12cm is bogus no matter how we look at it. (2) How did she indicate that she wanted him to ignore the 12cm? The green corrections are after the fact, so to speak. (3) What two small right triangles? I only see one, since the 3cm line looks like a continuation of line DC, not the height of the large triangle. (4) Besides, lacking instructions, a correct answer should be acceptable no matter the method. Unless I'm missing something... -- VerghisKoshi - 28 Apr 2006
(1) Yes, I agree that the 12 cm is bogus. Also, as Anne pointed out, there are other bogus numbers in the diagram. Basically, the numbers don't work in Euclidean 2D. (2) She didn't indicate in the diagram beforehand. Chris was supposed to read her mind, I guess. If the segment lengths had been valid, then the triangle's area could have been solved in any of several ways, including 1/2 bh of the big triangle, or sum of (1/2 bh of each of the two smaller triangles that are formed by the dotted 3cm line). (3) I'm referring to the small hand-sketched right triangle that has one 3cm side that is the continuation of DC, with a perpendicular over to A. (4) If the answer isn't correct, and the student has provided only squiggly lines and a final answer, then the teacher has no idea where the student went wrong, and on what topics he needs reiteration/reinforcement. (For that matter, how did she know that he was "missing area of parallelogram"? Did she guess that because it didn't have a squiggle?) Of course, point (4) would hold more weight if the diagram had been correct, which is obviously not true in this case. This diagram is so fubared as to be rendered unsolvable. Either the measurements are wrong, or some angles are incorrectly marked as right angles, or some combination of that. The only thing clear on the assignment is that she wanted to see the formulas that were used to come up with the answer. -- GoogleMaster - 28 Apr 2006
"(3) I'm referring to the small hand-sketched right triangle that has one 3cm side that is the continuation of DC, with a perpendicular over to A." Tough to discuss this over blog comments, but I think Ms. Kahl wanted the area of triangle ACE, which is composed of ACB and BCE. ACB is straightforward, but BCE a scalene triangle, correct? Hard to get its height. And the 3cm line that continues DC to the left edge of the triangle doesn't meet the edge at a right angle. Maybe Ms. Kahl, freed from the shackles of Euclidean 2D, was thinking of 4D curved space-time? -- VerghisKoshi - 28 Apr 2006
Grr! Sorry, BCE is a right triangle, ACB is scalene. -- VerghisKoshi - 28 Apr 2006
Yes, it is tough to discuss without being able to point and wave my hands at you. :) I think you're right, she wanted the area of ACE. However, I think by her comment "one triangle" and her labeling of "height" and "base" that she wanted the students to calculate the area of ACE directly, in one shot, using 1/2 * base * height, rather than as the sum of the area of ACB and BCE. -- GoogleMaster - 28 Apr 2006
...but don't have the height, right? 3cm is not the height. -- VerghisKoshi - 28 Apr 2006
Sorry, wasn't clear, no problem calculating area of the large triangle. I was trying to say that I don't see a way to calculate the area of the small scalene triangle. -- VerghisKoshi - 28 Apr 2006
Chris was supposed to read her mind, I guess. The entire course is one long exercise in mind-reading, or else points-off-off-off! -- CatherineJohnson - 29 Apr 2006
I'm not kidding. These people have yet to encounter relativism, unfortunately. Ms. K and the principal (and the math chair) all think that words like "show your work" can have only one possible meaning. Actually, scratch 'relativism.' None of them can write. They have no idea that it's possible to write directions other intelligent human beings will not be able to follow. Hence we are arrogant, non-rule-following jerks for protesting. -- CatherineJohnson - 29 Apr 2006
boy oh boy, have we seen the big fat Middle School Explanatory Fallacy in action around here. If a child is having problems, the explanation for those problems can be located in the child and/or in the parents. Period. -- CatherineJohnson - 29 Apr 2006
We've managed to throw them a curve by pounding away at the reality that our child, who is earning 'Bs,' is having problems. That gives them pause, but it doesn't shake their faith that the problems come from the child not from them. -- CatherineJohnson - 29 Apr 2006
"...it doesn't shake their faith..." From Yeats, "The Second Coming": "The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity." Is a puzzlement. I done thought the teachers were the cream of the crop. Of course I wasn't smart enough to ask which crop. -- VerghisKoshi - 30 Apr 2006
Verghis, you are bad -- CatherineJohnson - 01 May 2006
| WebLogForm | |
|---|---|
| Title: | news from nowhere, part 4 |
| TopicType: | WebLog |
| SubjectArea: | IrvingtonMath, IrvingtonSchools |
| LogDate: | 200604241437 |