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11 Oct 2005 - 23:58
Here, via oldnewschoolteacher, is KIPP's Mike Feinberg on math ed:
oldnewschoolteacher again:
I'm adding objectively pro-racist to the list.
[pause]
No. No, I'm not. I'm going with functionally racist. That oughta set some hair on fire.
Mike Feinberg of KIPP on spiral curricula
Steve and Susan J on spiral curricula
acceleration versus remediation
parents' stories about spiralling curricula
Back to main page.
Please consider registering as a regular user.
Look here for syntax help.
I'm afraid the author of Oh, Snap! may not be long for Columbia's Teacher's College. But she is so right. -- CarolynJohnston - 12 Oct 2005
I read last night that when Diane Ravitch left the Bush I administration Columbia refused to hire her back. This is Diane Ravitch! How many universities are going to refuse to hire back a returning Assistant Secretary of Education? That's when she went to NYU. -- CatherineJohnson - 12 Oct 2005
Just found this page and TheList. I like TheList - very helpful. I need a definition, if anyone can help. Last night, our DofCurr used a new (to me) bit of jargon "high-yield instructional practice" What is a high-yield instructional practice? I know what high-yield corn is, you get more corn. Does a HYIP produce more instruction? How would you know one if you experienced it? Can someone translate this into English? -- LynnGuelzow - 07 Sep 2006
Hi Lynn! good lord high-yield instructional practice? I, too, know what high-yield seed corn is. High yield instructional practice? -- CatherineJohnson - 29 Nov 2006
What is the list? -- CatherineJohnson - 29 Nov 2006
oh! was that a list of jargon? which I can no longer locate easily? -- CatherineJohnson - 29 Nov 2006
Feinberg is doing a great job. However, I'm not sure where he stands on curriculum. Elsewhere in the interview, he downplays its importance. He says we have good curriculum in this country and what's needed is better delivery --- that is to say, excellent teaching. I don't know about inner-city schools, but in our district, I think curriculum IS the problem. Most of our teachers are competent and want to do a good job. Of course, they vary in their abilities, but if you gave them a good curriculum, they'd be able to teach it. Feinberg's right, we do have good curricula in this country --- but we're not using them in the public schools. I think curriculum is the key to education reform. You are never going to fill all school districts in this country with only excellent, enthusiastic teachers who are willing to work overtime. While KIPP is a great opportunity for motivated inner-city kids, I'm not sure that you could replicate it on a large scale. -- RobynW - 30 Nov 2006
"I don't know about inner-city schools, but in our district, I think curriculum IS the problem. Most of our teachers are competent and want to do a good job. Of course, they vary in their abilities, but if you gave them a good curriculum, they'd be able to teach it." This is the way it is in our town. In urban areas, you can make great progress (relatively speaking) by just working harder and being serious about learning - not just teaching. But without a solid curriculum, this will take you only so far. "I think curriculum is the key to education reform." This would have to include yearly expectations of mastery and no social promotion. But they really don't want this. Can you use something like Saxon or Singapore Math but still have full-inclusion and social promotion? Part of a better curriculum is the faster pace, expectations of mastery, and a solid course in algebra in 8th grade. Practice, practice, practice. It doesn't require much time, and it really doesn't require much homework, but they really have to stop all of the time-wasting play learning. How can you have high and low expectations at the same time? Use good curricula, but put all of the onus on the kids? Teachers are supposed to be teachers, not cafeteria workers. The main themes of diffrentiated instruction and LD teaching are no competition, mixed-ability group learning, and an idea of unequal "fairness" or matching the expectations to the child. There is no (or a very low) external definition of expectations. All of the onus of learning is placed on the child (and the parents). As the classes ramp up as a lead-in to high school, the expectations might increase, but it's still all up to the child. -- SteveH - 30 Nov 2006
I suspect KIPP is using Saxon - I know that in Washington (is it Washington?) they were planning to use Saxon & Everyday Math. Feinberg began life as a 5th grade teacher, so you have to read him through that filter. The math teacher here - the guy I always talk to about our curriculum - says exactly the same thing. He has contempt for the textbooks; he says the curriculum is in his head. I was shocked when I first heard him say it, but then I realized this is a guy who's been teaching math for 34 years with not-very-good textbooks. With master teachers, the curriculum probably is in their head. -- CatherineJohnson - 01 Dec 2006
my kinda guy
Here, via oldnewschoolteacher, is KIPP's Mike Feinberg on math ed:
You know, talk about curriculum, if I put in front of you a fifth, sixth, seventh, and eighth grade textbook in math and opened up to page 200 and I jumbled them up, and said, “order them from fifth through eighth grade in order,” you'd have a very tough time because they all look the same. That's because, unfortunately, we have this national strategy of “we're not really going to teach to master, we're going to teach to exposure and over lots and lots of years of kids seeing page 200 in the math book, eventually somehow they're going to learn it. We're going to teach them how to reduce fractions in fifth grade, in sixth grade, in seventh grade, in eighth grade, in ninth grade and continue until finally somehow magically they're going to get it.” Instead of thinking, “let's teach the kids how to reduce fractions at a mastery level in fifth grade, maybe spend a little time reviewing it in sixth grade but let's move on to pre-algebra and let's move on to algebra then.” And that's been our take and so it's not that we have a different math curriculum as much as we have a different math strategy and a different math philosophy.
oh, snap
Everyone [in class] was decrying the fact that poor kids don't have the same things, and that they come into pre-K already behind. When they continue falling behind, middle school and high school teachers complain that "there just isn't enough time" to teach them, particularly with the mandated curriculum dictated by state exams. I pointed out that, if what people were saying was correct, then that would mean that urban kids should have more time in the classroom, longer school days, and longer school years. This would allow them to catch up and give their teachers the chance to cover everything they wanted. I provided the KIPP schools as an example of a school system that does this, and gets amazing results. It works. More time in school and good instruction works. My instructor was not pleased with this, though. He thought the idea was too "militaristic." He said, "I mean, what's the end goal?" I was flabbergasted, once again. Doesn't anyone get it? The goal is to give kids the skills and knowledge they need to choose the kind of lives they want to live. Period, end of story, I no longer want to talk to you, stupid idiot. But he has this whole notion of making people "good citizens" or getting them to "think critically" about the world. Ask yourself, what would you want for your child? Would you want her to get a great academic education and be able to do whatever she wanted, or would you want someone to teach her "how to be a good citizen" or "how to think critically"? I know, me too. And if the chips were down, my instructor would admit the same thing. The fact is that schools like KIPP are vaulting kids OUT OF POVERTY. They're giving them a fighting chance. And the concept of the schools is not that complex. Their motto is: Work hard. Be nice. And everything boils down to that in the end. There's no magic curriculum bullet. It's just hard work.
what was it Orwell said about people being objectively something-or-other?
Oh, yes. objectively pro-Fascistoldnewschoolteacher again:
This guy, this instructor, he so decries poverty and "keeping poor kids poor" and "the pedagogy of poverty" but it is HIS reluctance to accept WHAT WORKS FOR KIDS that keeps them where they are. I really don't understand. And I'm so angry about it.
I'm adding objectively pro-racist to the list.
[pause]
No. No, I'm not. I'm going with functionally racist. That oughta set some hair on fire.
Mike Feinberg of KIPP on spiral curricula
Steve and Susan J on spiral curricula
acceleration versus remediation
parents' stories about spiralling curricula
Back to main page.
Comments
After entering a comment, users can login anonymously as KtmGuest (password: guest) when prompted.Please consider registering as a regular user.
Look here for syntax help.
I'm afraid the author of Oh, Snap! may not be long for Columbia's Teacher's College. But she is so right. -- CarolynJohnston - 12 Oct 2005
I read last night that when Diane Ravitch left the Bush I administration Columbia refused to hire her back. This is Diane Ravitch! How many universities are going to refuse to hire back a returning Assistant Secretary of Education? That's when she went to NYU. -- CatherineJohnson - 12 Oct 2005
Just found this page and TheList. I like TheList - very helpful. I need a definition, if anyone can help. Last night, our DofCurr used a new (to me) bit of jargon "high-yield instructional practice" What is a high-yield instructional practice? I know what high-yield corn is, you get more corn. Does a HYIP produce more instruction? How would you know one if you experienced it? Can someone translate this into English? -- LynnGuelzow - 07 Sep 2006
Hi Lynn! good lord high-yield instructional practice? I, too, know what high-yield seed corn is. High yield instructional practice? -- CatherineJohnson - 29 Nov 2006
What is the list? -- CatherineJohnson - 29 Nov 2006
oh! was that a list of jargon? which I can no longer locate easily? -- CatherineJohnson - 29 Nov 2006
Feinberg is doing a great job. However, I'm not sure where he stands on curriculum. Elsewhere in the interview, he downplays its importance. He says we have good curriculum in this country and what's needed is better delivery --- that is to say, excellent teaching. I don't know about inner-city schools, but in our district, I think curriculum IS the problem. Most of our teachers are competent and want to do a good job. Of course, they vary in their abilities, but if you gave them a good curriculum, they'd be able to teach it. Feinberg's right, we do have good curricula in this country --- but we're not using them in the public schools. I think curriculum is the key to education reform. You are never going to fill all school districts in this country with only excellent, enthusiastic teachers who are willing to work overtime. While KIPP is a great opportunity for motivated inner-city kids, I'm not sure that you could replicate it on a large scale. -- RobynW - 30 Nov 2006
"I don't know about inner-city schools, but in our district, I think curriculum IS the problem. Most of our teachers are competent and want to do a good job. Of course, they vary in their abilities, but if you gave them a good curriculum, they'd be able to teach it." This is the way it is in our town. In urban areas, you can make great progress (relatively speaking) by just working harder and being serious about learning - not just teaching. But without a solid curriculum, this will take you only so far. "I think curriculum is the key to education reform." This would have to include yearly expectations of mastery and no social promotion. But they really don't want this. Can you use something like Saxon or Singapore Math but still have full-inclusion and social promotion? Part of a better curriculum is the faster pace, expectations of mastery, and a solid course in algebra in 8th grade. Practice, practice, practice. It doesn't require much time, and it really doesn't require much homework, but they really have to stop all of the time-wasting play learning. How can you have high and low expectations at the same time? Use good curricula, but put all of the onus on the kids? Teachers are supposed to be teachers, not cafeteria workers. The main themes of diffrentiated instruction and LD teaching are no competition, mixed-ability group learning, and an idea of unequal "fairness" or matching the expectations to the child. There is no (or a very low) external definition of expectations. All of the onus of learning is placed on the child (and the parents). As the classes ramp up as a lead-in to high school, the expectations might increase, but it's still all up to the child. -- SteveH - 30 Nov 2006
I suspect KIPP is using Saxon - I know that in Washington (is it Washington?) they were planning to use Saxon & Everyday Math. Feinberg began life as a 5th grade teacher, so you have to read him through that filter. The math teacher here - the guy I always talk to about our curriculum - says exactly the same thing. He has contempt for the textbooks; he says the curriculum is in his head. I was shocked when I first heard him say it, but then I realized this is a guy who's been teaching math for 34 years with not-very-good textbooks. With master teachers, the curriculum probably is in their head. -- CatherineJohnson - 01 Dec 2006
| WebLogForm | |
|---|---|
| Title: | my kinda guy |
| TopicType: | WebLog |
| SubjectArea: | ElementaryMath, TeachersTeachingKids |
| LogDate: | 200510111958 |