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25 Apr 2006 - 20:35
email to the math chair:
Karen, I want to apologize for being hostile and short with you. That was wrong. I appreciate your patience. A quick note about tutoring and parent reteaching. The reason I know parents are hiring tutors and reteaching content isn’t simply that parents tell me so. I know because I have been reteaching other people’s children myself. Here’s an example. One day, during the run-up to the state tests, Ms. Kahl assigned her classes 4 word problems, numbers 8, 9, 10, and 11, from page 283 in Prentice-Hall. I sat with Christopher & his friend ‘M.’ as they tried to do the problems. Neither boy knew where to begin. I asked whether Ms. Kahl had taught them how to do similar problems in class. Both boys said, “No.” So I worked with them, guiding them through the problems, teaching the concepts and procedures. The next day I asked Christopher and his friend whether Ms. Kahl had gone over the problems in class. She had gone over just one of the problems, the most difficult of the lot, #9. She had asked whether any of the students had trouble doing the problems, and the only problem the kids said they had difficulty with was #9. I know for a fact that neither Christopher nor his friend M. could do the other 3 problems. But they didn’t say so in class. This happens constantly with all children. It happens with college students, too. Ed has been a professor for 25 years. He says it’s axiomatic that you never ask a student whether he knows something. You can’t even ask a college student whether he understands something. The student will say ‘yes’ when the answer is no. You must ask the student to show you what he knows and can do. If we could simply ask students whether they do or do not know the material there would be no need for tests at all. I understand that this is a new idea for public schools. It was a new idea for me when I began reading the literature on metacognition. Because children don’t know what they do and do not know, adults must take responsibility for discovering what children have not learned and reteach that material. That is the function Irvington parents and tutors are performing. We assess, we reteach, and we reassess. The school seldom hears about it, because the arrangement is taken for granted by parents as well as by teachers and administrators. I’ll round up Carol Gambill’s article and forward it----and again, I’m sorry for giving you a hard time. Catherine J.
cordial
email to the math teacher, part 1
Irvington Math Chair
follow-up to math chair
peer grading
extra credit
mathchair
-- CatherineJohnson - 25 Apr 2006 Back to main page.
Please consider registering as a regular user.
Look here for syntax help.
Nicely composed email -- it's like you're a professional writer or something! -- BenCalvin - 25 Apr 2006
thank you! -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
btw....I've been wondering whether one could use blogs to help teach writing writing posts for ktm is tremendous practice (I think...) & I'm wondering whether there would be a way for teachers to do this I'll have to write up my brief conversation with Mitchell Dobbs, the famous and now retired writing teacher at IMS The jist was that teaching writing well is a huge amount of work (which of course is the way I look at it...) but I'm wondering whether setting up a class blog might offer a short cut of sorts.... -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
I'm wondering whether you could use a blog to give students practice lack of practice is a big problem in all the writing instruction I'm seeing -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
yeah....I wrote this yesterday, then held onto it until today....and I think it bears up well it's an infuriating message (I'm well aware) but the tone is managed, and the framing apologies are sincere and will I think be perceived as sincere, in part because I stopped being hostile midstream during the original conversation at a minimum, she knows that I know and acknowledge that I did not speak as I should have done, and as I wish I had done -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
We're throwing in the towel on Ms. Kahl. Two hundred parents revolted against her last year, and she's still here. "She is a fine young teacher." I think she may have improved a bit at the beginning of the year, and I've assumed that the improvement occurred because someone in the math department helped her improve. But as the year has gone by she has reverted to old tricks. Everything she does now, across the board, is what she did last year. I know it all by heart, having lived through it first with my neighbor, and now with my own child. My neighbor says Ms. Kahl's emails are virtually identical to the emails she used to get. Her word is 'rigid.' Ms. Kahl rigidly enforces punitive grading, punitive docking of points, punitive this, punitive that. How you can have dozens of parents in open revolt against your teaching and not improve in any way, shape, or form AND GET TENURE - it's a mystery. Actually, it's not a mystery. She raised her grades. Last year kids were getting 20s and 30s on tests. This year kids are getting 70s and 80s. That's enough to keep her out of the line of fire. -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
I WILL ADD: we're throwing in the towel means no more communication with Ms. Kahl. we're keeping notes -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
A friend of mine came up with the best line in the letter: If we could simply ask students whether they do or do not know the material there would be no need for tests at all. -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
IMHO, no harm in continuing to e-mail her. If she replies, well and good. If not, it will count against her. -- VerghisKoshi - 26 Apr 2006
IMHO, no harm in continuing to e-mail her. If she replies, well and good. If not, it will count against her. well, that's what I said! I figure, PAPER TRAIL I'll sleep on it one way or another, I'll be keeping notes, and I'll be posting notes here, and posting them to the Yahoo group as it gets off the ground, which I hope won't take forever parents have no access to each other's emails, so that's another Whole Thing The PTSA has emails, and the IEF I assume has emails, but I have a feeling Ed and I are going to have to do some digging.... -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
This is where your Yahoo group can come in handy. And the :cc and :bcc. I'd suggest talking to other parents in the class and see if they would share with you. And you can offer to share with them. -- BenCalvin - 26 Apr 2006
She raised her grades. Last year kids were getting 20s and 30s on tests. This year kids are getting 70s and 80s. That's enough to keep her out of the line of fire. -- CatherineJohnson? - 26 Apr 2006 This is exactly what happened to my friend's child. He was doing horribly the first weeks of school. His interim report was filled with missing assignments, failed tests, etc. Without intervention, he was going to fail the first semester. His mother was shocked. From then on she monitored his work closely and made sure that he turned everything in....low and behold, he made the honor roll just a few weeks later. His mom couldn't figure out how he went from almost failing to honor roll (he hadn't made up any of the lost work or failed tests). This is a new teacher, and I think she probably decided to lower her standards a bit rather than deal with parents. -- NicksMama - 26 Apr 2006
This is a new teacher, and I think she probably decided to lower her standards a bit rather than deal with parents. yes, I'd love to know exactly what she did to raise her grades I think she may have decided to weight homework completion more strongly, but I don't know Her tests are getting worse and worse. Routinely, now, she puts problems on that are multi-step applications of concepts she's taught purely procedurally. This was a HUGE complaint on the part of parents last year, and she is now doing exactly that here in the second semester. -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
The Yahoo group is going to be VERY interesting. I had another email today from a mom who - guess what? - is having the same problem with the English Department that I know at least one other parent is having .... and of course these two parents have never met. Once parents have an ability to compare notes, look out. -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
news from nowhere, part 3
email to the math chair:
Karen, I want to apologize for being hostile and short with you. That was wrong. I appreciate your patience. A quick note about tutoring and parent reteaching. The reason I know parents are hiring tutors and reteaching content isn’t simply that parents tell me so. I know because I have been reteaching other people’s children myself. Here’s an example. One day, during the run-up to the state tests, Ms. Kahl assigned her classes 4 word problems, numbers 8, 9, 10, and 11, from page 283 in Prentice-Hall. I sat with Christopher & his friend ‘M.’ as they tried to do the problems. Neither boy knew where to begin. I asked whether Ms. Kahl had taught them how to do similar problems in class. Both boys said, “No.” So I worked with them, guiding them through the problems, teaching the concepts and procedures. The next day I asked Christopher and his friend whether Ms. Kahl had gone over the problems in class. She had gone over just one of the problems, the most difficult of the lot, #9. She had asked whether any of the students had trouble doing the problems, and the only problem the kids said they had difficulty with was #9. I know for a fact that neither Christopher nor his friend M. could do the other 3 problems. But they didn’t say so in class. This happens constantly with all children. It happens with college students, too. Ed has been a professor for 25 years. He says it’s axiomatic that you never ask a student whether he knows something. You can’t even ask a college student whether he understands something. The student will say ‘yes’ when the answer is no. You must ask the student to show you what he knows and can do. If we could simply ask students whether they do or do not know the material there would be no need for tests at all. I understand that this is a new idea for public schools. It was a new idea for me when I began reading the literature on metacognition. Because children don’t know what they do and do not know, adults must take responsibility for discovering what children have not learned and reteach that material. That is the function Irvington parents and tutors are performing. We assess, we reteach, and we reassess. The school seldom hears about it, because the arrangement is taken for granted by parents as well as by teachers and administrators. I’ll round up Carol Gambill’s article and forward it----and again, I’m sorry for giving you a hard time. Catherine J.
cordial
email to the math teacher, part 1
Irvington Math Chair
follow-up to math chair
peer grading
extra credit
mathchair
-- CatherineJohnson - 25 Apr 2006 Back to main page.
Comments
After entering a comment, users can login anonymously as KtmGuest (password: guest) when prompted.Please consider registering as a regular user.
Look here for syntax help.
Nicely composed email -- it's like you're a professional writer or something! -- BenCalvin - 25 Apr 2006
thank you! -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
btw....I've been wondering whether one could use blogs to help teach writing writing posts for ktm is tremendous practice (I think...) & I'm wondering whether there would be a way for teachers to do this I'll have to write up my brief conversation with Mitchell Dobbs, the famous and now retired writing teacher at IMS The jist was that teaching writing well is a huge amount of work (which of course is the way I look at it...) but I'm wondering whether setting up a class blog might offer a short cut of sorts.... -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
I'm wondering whether you could use a blog to give students practice lack of practice is a big problem in all the writing instruction I'm seeing -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
yeah....I wrote this yesterday, then held onto it until today....and I think it bears up well it's an infuriating message (I'm well aware) but the tone is managed, and the framing apologies are sincere and will I think be perceived as sincere, in part because I stopped being hostile midstream during the original conversation at a minimum, she knows that I know and acknowledge that I did not speak as I should have done, and as I wish I had done -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
We're throwing in the towel on Ms. Kahl. Two hundred parents revolted against her last year, and she's still here. "She is a fine young teacher." I think she may have improved a bit at the beginning of the year, and I've assumed that the improvement occurred because someone in the math department helped her improve. But as the year has gone by she has reverted to old tricks. Everything she does now, across the board, is what she did last year. I know it all by heart, having lived through it first with my neighbor, and now with my own child. My neighbor says Ms. Kahl's emails are virtually identical to the emails she used to get. Her word is 'rigid.' Ms. Kahl rigidly enforces punitive grading, punitive docking of points, punitive this, punitive that. How you can have dozens of parents in open revolt against your teaching and not improve in any way, shape, or form AND GET TENURE - it's a mystery. Actually, it's not a mystery. She raised her grades. Last year kids were getting 20s and 30s on tests. This year kids are getting 70s and 80s. That's enough to keep her out of the line of fire. -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
I WILL ADD: we're throwing in the towel means no more communication with Ms. Kahl. we're keeping notes -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
A friend of mine came up with the best line in the letter: If we could simply ask students whether they do or do not know the material there would be no need for tests at all. -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
IMHO, no harm in continuing to e-mail her. If she replies, well and good. If not, it will count against her. -- VerghisKoshi - 26 Apr 2006
IMHO, no harm in continuing to e-mail her. If she replies, well and good. If not, it will count against her. well, that's what I said! I figure, PAPER TRAIL I'll sleep on it one way or another, I'll be keeping notes, and I'll be posting notes here, and posting them to the Yahoo group as it gets off the ground, which I hope won't take forever parents have no access to each other's emails, so that's another Whole Thing The PTSA has emails, and the IEF I assume has emails, but I have a feeling Ed and I are going to have to do some digging.... -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
This is where your Yahoo group can come in handy. And the :cc and :bcc. I'd suggest talking to other parents in the class and see if they would share with you. And you can offer to share with them. -- BenCalvin - 26 Apr 2006
She raised her grades. Last year kids were getting 20s and 30s on tests. This year kids are getting 70s and 80s. That's enough to keep her out of the line of fire. -- CatherineJohnson? - 26 Apr 2006 This is exactly what happened to my friend's child. He was doing horribly the first weeks of school. His interim report was filled with missing assignments, failed tests, etc. Without intervention, he was going to fail the first semester. His mother was shocked. From then on she monitored his work closely and made sure that he turned everything in....low and behold, he made the honor roll just a few weeks later. His mom couldn't figure out how he went from almost failing to honor roll (he hadn't made up any of the lost work or failed tests). This is a new teacher, and I think she probably decided to lower her standards a bit rather than deal with parents. -- NicksMama - 26 Apr 2006
This is a new teacher, and I think she probably decided to lower her standards a bit rather than deal with parents. yes, I'd love to know exactly what she did to raise her grades I think she may have decided to weight homework completion more strongly, but I don't know Her tests are getting worse and worse. Routinely, now, she puts problems on that are multi-step applications of concepts she's taught purely procedurally. This was a HUGE complaint on the part of parents last year, and she is now doing exactly that here in the second semester. -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
The Yahoo group is going to be VERY interesting. I had another email today from a mom who - guess what? - is having the same problem with the English Department that I know at least one other parent is having .... and of course these two parents have never met. Once parents have an ability to compare notes, look out. -- CatherineJohnson - 26 Apr 2006
| WebLogForm | |
|---|---|
| Title: | news from nowhere, part 3 |
| TopicType: | WebLog |
| SubjectArea: | AssessmentTests, IrvingtonMath, IrvingtonSchools, TeachersTeachingKids |
| LogDate: | 200604251625 |