09 Dec 2005 - 17:38

Paul Miller and Rudbeckia Hirta on assessment


I'm disheartened today. Watching Christopher fall apart is excruciating (all the more so given how much I know about fear and the brain), and.....

......and I've had it.

So when I got home this morning, after dealing with the THIRD car to be stuck in our driveway in two days (I'm starting to feel like Bill Murray in GROUNDHOG DAY), and found these comments from Paul Miller and Rudbeckia Hirta, I thought, There's hope. (I'll be a much more cheerful person tomorrow, or even.....later on this afternoon!)


from Paul:

One thing I've been putting a lot of thought into is how to teach to mastery in an environment where I'm on a strict schedule and have very limited time. I bet Black and Wiliam weren't thinking of people who have to jam what would be a whole year of algebra in high school into a semester.

Still, I have decided, there will be quizzes at least weekly next semester.



and from Rudbeckia:

This semester I gave twenty quizzes in calculus (the best 10 counted), and I'm thinking of giving quizzes every class next time I teach something from the algebra / precalc / calc sequence. Next time I'm going to make them VERY short, 3-5 minutes, and give them at the exact beginning of class. My bet is that the instructional face-time lost will trade well with increased studying.

Here's how I feel, reading these comments.

These comments, these actions, are a gift. A gift from two highly intelligent and educated people to the younger people they are trying to teach.

The way I'm feeling today, they're a gift to me, too.


where we are with English

Mrs. Roth can't teach our child. That battle we can handle, although the school will certainly refuse to move Christopher to another class. If I were a betting person I'd bet they end up moving him whether they want to or not, but we'll see.

Whether he goes or stays, he will never write another assignment for this woman.

Worksheets, fine; reading logs, check. But no written work. We're done.

What we need is for the principal to read Christopher's essay and tell him it's not a 'D.' His friends are making fun of him, telling him his parents are 'just saying' his essay is good, because we're his parents. All these boys insult each other all day long, Chris included. But on this issue his friends are drawing blood, which I'm sure they don't know. He's probably hurting them, too. The things they say to each other are appalling, and I have no idea what to do about it.

Advice?

Christopher's confidence is shot. He thinks he can't write, can't do math, can't do anything.

We saw this happen before, in 2001, after the attacks. He'd been an aggressive little soccer player, one of the best on the team. Then he lost his nerve. He just....stopped. On the field, he was diffident and slow. At school, he was bullied.

Ed was the soccer coach, so he was there; he watched it happen. He told me last night he's seeing the same thing all over again, only this time in academics, where it counts.

Maybe it's not like that; maybe he'll bounce back. We'll see.


question

So Mrs. Roth has to go, but the math teacher is another story.

She's very young; I think this is her first job. (back story for new readers stopping by: Her course last year was so brutal for the kids—unintentionally so—that the parents were in open revolt.)

She's a good egg. Last year must have been painful for her; the huge revisions they did to her course over the summer may have been distressing, too. Yes, it's important to have mentors and help, but having mentors and help in the context of parent fury is another story.

So....I need to push her for Christopher's sake, but I want to 'push' in a way that's positive, helpful, and likely to be listened to.

Here's what I think we need: If any of you have extra items to add, let me know





Let me ask all of you: what is the work that would typically be shown for this question?

Compare using <, >, =

0.635 __ 0.365

To me, this is a simple comparison—but do teachers typically ask for work to be shown on this kind of question?

If so, does the student write a subtraction problem, or perhaps draw a number line?

I'll find out from Christopher's teacher, but I'm wondering about other peoples' experience.

I have no problem with the requirement that the kids show their work; I think it's probably good at this stage. But I've got to know from the get-go what 'showing your work' means for each given problem, so we can practice it from the get-go.

  • Second item, Christopher needs guided practice in class.


Christopher says that the norm is for Ms. Kahl to lecture and give an assignment. The kids do the procedure she's taught for the first time at home.

I'm sure his perception of the class and her perception of the class are going to be an imperfect match. she does have them do worksheets in class sometimes, or start their homework. I'm not sure whether either of those situations constitute 'true' guided practice, but they're probably in the realm.

Still, the fact is that he not infrequently comes home from school without a clue how to do the procedure she's demonstrated in class that day is significant. While she may be doing some guided practice, I need her to do more. Which means I'm crossing a line into the realm of telling a teacher how to teach.

  • Third, and most important, I need formative assessment to be happening in the class.


We have no teaching to mastery at all. Instead we have a classic 'accelerated' course, where the children are expected to be math brains, the teacher whizzes through the material, and only the strong survive. The weak fall behind, struggle to move their legs faster than they'll go, gulp down huge mouthfuls of air, pour sweat, and finally collapse in a heap. Only one grading period into the year so far, Christopher's nearing collapse. He earned a B on his first chapter test, a C on his 2nd, and, now, a D on his 3rd.

Yes, he could move down to the combined Phase 2/3 course.

He could move down and study place value. They've spent weeks on place value. I forget what they're doing now; I'll find out. It's not going to be anything he needs to spend an hour a day doing.

Here's my question: how do I broach these subjects?

These are large issues, not small. And this teacher is almost certainly in Paul's situation. She has to cover this material, and she has to cover it fast. What she's got to work with is nothing like a Singapore course where the curriculum has been painstakingly put together to allow the fastest possible progress for all children, math brains or no.

So she's up against it.

But we need these changes. We need the school and the individual teachers to assume responsibility for making sure the children have learned what they've been taught. All but the brainiest kids need this, and even the brainiest kids are going to need it somewhere along the line, too.


back to Rudbeckia & Paul

Actually, it suddenly occurs to me that I can cite Paul & Rudbeckia—especially, for my purposes, Rudbeckia's top-10-quizzes count approach.

That would be so much more humane for these kids, and so much more motivating.

Alright, that's a possibility.


what we told Christopher

The math situation is probably manageable.

Ed, this morning, read over Christopher's test and said that he's not having nearly the amount of homework he needs if he's to do the tests she's giving.

Math class lasts 50 minutes; the test had 24 questions, some with several parts. Christopher has two minutes at most to answer each question, and he has to show his work (and his handwriting is not only bad, but slow).

Now he's developed test anxiety, so he's not managing to read the questions. He must be freezing up, just not seeing the words.

The point is: if he's going to do 24-item tests in 45 minutes, he has to have more practice. Ms. Kahl sometimes sends home homework 'sets' with only 4 problems. Maybe the math brains can do 4 problems and ace a test (they probably can).

Christopher can't. If Christopher is going to do a 24-item test in 45 minutes he can't have done 4-problem homework sets. Wayne Wickelgren says children should do 30 problems a night. That's what Christopher needs to do. Thirty problems a night.

We were finally able to get through to him on this point last night—thanks to KUMON and to Saxon Math.

I said, "Do you ever flunk KUMON worksheets?"

Christopher said, "No."

I said, "Why don't you flunk KUMON worksheets?"

Christopher said, "Because I've practiced."

I said, "Because you've practiced a lot."

Then I said, "Did you ever flunk Saxon tests?"

"No."

Why?"

"Because I practiced."

"Because you practiced a lot."

Then both Ed and I said, You need to be able to do these problems as fast as you can write.

You need to be able to do them in your sleep.

You need to know them cold.

That's a simple message, and he understood it.

I hope it will finally start to sink in. Christopher thinks that if he can do a problem he knows it. It may take him 5 minutes to do one problem, but if he gets it right, he's done.

No one at the school has told him that isn't the way it works. He's had two months of "Study Skills" class and the only thing they seem to have told him about study and learning is 'Find a quiet place.'

I, of course, have been trying to get this message across for months, but, as Carolyn pointed out, we're hitting the end of parental influence.

Last night he heard us.

A couple of weeks ago I tracked down the Prentice Hall pre-algebra workbook that accompanies his text. We agreed that from now on he'll do ALL the problems on the work sheet, not every other problem, or, even worse, every fourth problem. (I'd put money on it Ms. Kahl has been told not to overload the kids with homework.)

Last night, that's what we did. Every single problem.

That proved to be a terrific object lesson.

He did one problem laboriously, taking far longer than he'd have on a test.

Then, because we were doing every problem, he did the next one— in half the time.

I said, "Look how much faster you got just from doing two problems instead of one."

He saw it.


cheeful thought

I'm going to get a grip now.

My neighbor, whose son struggled through this class last year, told me that the 7th grade book is mostly review. I think they start algebra in January, so I'm assuming they spend fall semester reviewing the gazillion procedures and concepts they learned in 6th grade pre-algebra, then make the move to formal algebra mid-year.

That's good.

I'm obviously back in re-teaching land; Christopher is losing another year of math instruction, just as he did in 4th grade.

But this time he's got KUMON, and KUMON speeds along. Yes, he's doing 3rd grade math now, but in two weeks he'll be doing 4th grade; 7 weeks after that he'll move to 5th. Slow but steady wins the race. Mr. Liu told us parents see major gains after one year of KUMON.

'You need to invest that time,' he said.

We're investing.

And this time I know I have to re-teach, and I'm starting now. I'll have the summer, too.

Then he'll have a fall semester of review with, I hope, the best teacher they've got.

So I think we can do this.


Back to main page.

Comments

After entering a comment, users can login anonymously as KtmGuest (password: guest) when prompted.
Please consider registering as a regular user.
Look here for syntax help.

I have no idea what work you "show" for greater than/less that questions.

You might want to write down managable questions like what you put up above for your meeting with her, which I know you'll be having soon. That's perfectly legitimate and it will get you clear and perhaps make her realize that she's not so clear. She has to tell them what she means or the book must have had them doing it that way unless it is some standard way of doing it that everyone knows about.

We were having similar issues with not having enough homework for the work being asked to be done. We've had to use the other books I have for extra practice.

Again, children don't know what they don't know. They don't know about flexible/inflexible knowledge. They don't know how much is enough. An experienced teacher whose had children bomb on sections would probably anticipate problems with certain chapters. My son's algebra teacher is a veteran. He has stretched and redone some chapters with extra practice. After 25+ years of teaching math he knows exactly what's going to happen and when he can trust the text and when he can't. Even with that, some kids aren't going to make it and I still have the feeling it has more to do with not having enough practice.

I have had to become his personal secretary because of the school's expectations of him regarding homework and projects and deadlines. He is given all kinds of things to do with all kinds of deadlines and no real guidance on how to manage his time. Many of these things are lacking in specificity. I have to make him pull out his assignments and go through them one by one. If he can't explain something I ask why he didn't write down more so that he would understand it when he got home. We've had much whining and crying over this, but he's starting, finally, to realize that I am going to look at it when he gets home and it must make sense. Just my hammering away at the assignment book and his responsiblity to accurately get his work written down thoroughly has started to make him realize what he has to do to succeed, but that is a gargantuan assignment in and of itself.

I seriously don't remember this kind of juggling of assignments myself much before high school, so it irritates me that I have to take so much time to teach him how to even write it down properly.

I think as a parent you can point out these kinds of murky expectations by the teacher (like the show your work problem) and that they need to be clarified better.

Test-taking has been more difficult for my son, too. There's a stamina and a maturity needed that's a little different than is required for the quizzes. We were doing great on the quizzes, but tanking on the tests. We've talked it through with him and he's improving, but he still isn't as strong on them as he is on the quizzes.

It sounds like you are trying to turn it into a Life Lesson about perseverence and I think you are so smart to do so. Like you said, quitting soccer is no big deal, but he needs to see that some things he can't quit and that it will be alright. They really think it's the end of the world.

With all that blasted "character" stuff they're teaching, you'd think they'd include some of what he's going through.

-- SusanS - 06 Dec 2005

Theorem: 0.635 > 0.365

Proof: Since 635 > 365, 0.635 = 635 * 10^{-3} > 365 * 10^{-3} = 0.365.

Q.E.D.

Yeah, whatever. :P

-- PaulMiller - 06 Dec 2005

He actually didn't quit soccer!

But the whole reason he didn't quit soccer was that Ed was the coach, and he doggedly continued to be the coach even after it became very unrewarding.

Ed completely managed that episode of Christopher's life.

My memory is that Christopher finally got his mojo back (I'm going to have to check with Ed), and that it was completely Ed's doing.

(The only thing I need to check is whether he completely 'recovered,' or almost completely. I know that Ed hauled him bodily back into 'Real Boyhood' just as I've been doing with math.)

-- CatherineJohnson - 06 Dec 2005

Paul

I'M WRITING THAT DOWN

-- CatherineJohnson - 06 Dec 2005

Thought I'd drop this link in again:

Carol Gambill method of teaching algebra

-- CatherineJohnson - 06 Dec 2005

Lemma: 0.635 > 0.365.

Proof: 0.635 - 0.365 = 0.27, and 0.27 ≥ 0. 0.635 - 0.365 ≥ 0 by transitivity of ≥. 0.635 and 0.365 are both reals. The reals together with ≥ form a totally ordered field. Therefore 0.635 - 0.365 ≥ 0 implies 0.635 - 0.365 + 0.365 ≥ 0 + 0.365. Simplifying we find 0.635 ≥ 0.365. 0.635 is not equal to 0.365, so 0.635 > 0.365.

-- KtmGuest - 06 Dec 2005

ktm guest

I'm writing that down, too!

(I'm going to have to start a proofs & demonstrations page.)

-- CatherineJohnson - 06 Dec 2005

I would suggest a number line with the approximate location of the two numbers, 0 and infinity (large number). Label that numbers increase from 0 toward infinity on the number line, hence .635 > .365.

-- ChrisAdams - 07 Dec 2005

I like the number line idea for an 11 year old. Clearly shows they know what they're talking about.

-- CatherineJohnson - 07 Dec 2005

Catherine - Can you please make sure to tell us what Ms Kahl means when she says "show your working" for this?

I'm deeply curious.

-- TracyW - 07 Dec 2005

I doubt they're worth much, but I've thought of a few tiny nuts-and-bolts things that might help at the margin.

* Is it okay to show the work for the test on separate sheets of scratch paper? If so, encourage Christopher to use it liberally.

  • Assuming we can use lots of scratch paper, encourage him never to erase. It wastes time, and leaves a mess, anyway. Just draw a line through things and keep going.

  • Consider pre-labeling his scratch paper with his name, so he doesn't have to waste time during the test.

  • I'm all for aiming high, but he doesn't have to get all 24 problems right in 50 minutes. Getting 20 done well should improve his grade and boost his confidence. Once the trend is upward, you can aim for A's.

As I say, steps like these may amount to no help at all. Still, they may boost his confidence just to think he has a few more elements of a test taking strategy.

-- DanK - 07 Dec 2005

When I taught comparing decimals, I taught Ben a procedure of starting at the largest digit, moving rightward until you find two digits that aren't the same, and comparing the two. I had Ben circle the digits he was comparing. Would that answer the requirement to show his work?

How much credit did Christopher lose for failure to show his work?

I am so sorry this is happening. How wretched.

-- CarolynJohnston - 07 Dec 2005

I should mention that this technique doesn't work for comparisons like

24.00000000000....

versus

23.999999999999....

These two numbers are equal. But by the time the kids have to know this, the comparison algorithm should be well-mastered.

-- CarolynJohnston - 07 Dec 2005

Catherine - Can you please make sure to tell us what Ms Kahl means when she says "show your working" for this?

I'm deeply curious.

Tracy yes, I'll remember. (It's possible I've misread; maybe she was talking about showing work for another problem. But it sure looks like she's talking about the number comparisons.)

-- CatherineJohnson - 07 Dec 2005

Carolyn—thanks! That's a great idea.

I also love the Saxon method of rounding off.

Say you're supposed to round off 1.3257 to the nearest hundredth.

You underline the 2, and circle the 5.

Then you change the 2 to a 3.

It's terrifically helpful, because it keeps your eye focused on the numbers you're working with.

One thing I've noticed: in the years since I went to school educators have come up with TONS of extremely helpful visual tools like this that take the load off working memory, and keep your eyes in the right part of the problem.

-- CatherineJohnson - 07 Dec 2005

One thing I've noticed: in the years since I went to school educators have come up with TONS of extremely helpful visual tools like this that take the load off working memory, and keep your eyes in the right part of the problem.

Except that all these techniques aren't being used in the vast majority of math classrooms. That's one reason wht I don't like the term "traditionalist" to descibe constructivist critics. I don't want to go back to anything, I want to move forward to something that is effective.

-- KDeRosa - 07 Dec 2005

Thanks for the sympathy!

I feel a zillion times better today. Yesterday I was basically waiting to see if Christopher was now traumatized (if only in a small way); plus I had to deal with the Singapore math situation. (That was fine, but on the other hand it didn't add to the funness of the day.)

Christopher was teary again last night......so I'm watching the situation.

Plus he's saying he wants to be homeschooled, he doesn't want to go to his school, he's being teased that he deserved his 'D' (his TWO Ds) because he 'didn't do any work,' etc.

Mrs. Roth made a point of telling Christopher in front of the class that he hadn't put any effort into his Feature Story. So now his friends—and these are his friends—are relentlessly harping on how he didn't do any work, deserves a D, etc.

Middle School just stinks.

AND, of course, Ed is dead set against homeschooling; actually, he's not dead set against it; he doesn't even comprehend the very concept of it.

Ed does not live on a planet where normal, rational people homeschool their kids.

AND.....I'm sure as heck not going to plunge into homeschooling impulsively; if there's going to be homeschooling around here, I'm going to have to do some serious research & prep FIRST.

sheesh

So, things are a tad topsy-turvey around here, but on the other hand, things are always a tad topsy-turvey around here.

Christopher was, on the whole, not a wreck last night.

'Wreck' is what I was worried about.

The other good thing, and reason for my vastly improved spirits, is that I think Christopher can be 'saved' (I really do mean saved) by his dad.

I'm not enough, in this situation. I'm sure it's something about boyhood & male identity, all of that.

Christopher is seeing his dad come roaring to his defense, and after last night I think that's probably all he needs.

I'm thinking he'll emerge from this without a handicapping fear of writing.

Of course, he won't be doing any more writing for Mrs. Roth.

We've told him that.

-- CatherineJohnson - 07 Dec 2005

Except that all these techniques aren't being used in the vast majority of math classrooms.

Isn't it incredible!

They've come up with wonderful stuff, and they're tossing it all out the window.

You're right about the term 'traditionalists.' I shouldn't have used it, and normally I don't.

But Ken, what do we call our group?

I don't have a shorthand name for us.

When I'm being flip I say 'content freaks.'

Carolyn has used the expression 'modern traditionalists,' which is about the best we've got.

Do you have a phrase?

-- CatherineJohnson - 07 Dec 2005

i think of us as "math teachers", but that's not helpful.
how about "counter-reformers"?

-- VlorbikDotCom - 07 Dec 2005

counter-reformers

you know, that's not half bad

wow

it's really pretentious (that's a good thing) and it's confusing (also a good thing)

I'm gonna give that one a try-out....

The Counter-Reform Movement.

Those of us in the counter-reform movement

Mathematicians and educators belonging to the counter-reform movement

the possibilities are endless

-- CatherineJohnson - 07 Dec 2005

I don't have a sound-bite name yet. Maybe we should throw the question out there to see who can come up with the best name.

I'm thinking validated "mastery learning" will play some part in it.

-- KDeRosa - 07 Dec 2005

"Mrs. Roth made a point of telling Christopher in front of the class that he hadn't put any effort into his Feature Story."

That is absolutely unconscionable and arguably academic malpractice. "Praise with an audience and correct in private" is taught in every introductory management class, in military junior NCO and junior officer training, and, I fully expect, in ed schools.

There is no excuse for this.

-- DougSundseth - 07 Dec 2005

That is absolutely unconscionable and arguably academic malpractice. "Praise with an audience and correct in private" is taught in every introductory management class, in military junior NCO and junior officer training, and, I fully expect, in ed schools.

Of course, effective classroom control has been researched and field tested extensively. See Rules, Praise, and Ignoring: Elements of Elementary Classroom Control for one example.

Most of the best stuff naturally comes from the DI people, because it is critical for them to control the classroom so they can effectively teach. They're the few who really care about classroom management because they are pretty much the only ones taking responsibility when the kids don't learn.

It is doubtful that many teachers are taught these techniques in Ed school, it goes against their child-centered philosophy. Visit a few inner city classrooms to see how little control teachers have over the kids.

-- KDeRosa - 07 Dec 2005

The Counter-Reform Movement.

Or, let's just skip straight to The Enlightenment.

-- SusanS - 07 Dec 2005

I don't have a sound-bite name yet. Maybe we should throw the question out there to see who can come up with the best name.

YES!

WE SHOULD!

WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THAT?

Of course, that's why we have KDeRosa!

-- CatherineJohnson - 07 Dec 2005

Doug

That is absolutely unconscionable and arguably academic malpractice. "Praise with an audience and correct in private" is taught in every introductory management class, in military junior NCO and junior officer training, and, I fully expect, in ed schools.

I agree.

That's why I've chosen to write about Mrs. Roth using her real name.

I'm very careful when writing about real people. Any time I write anything about teachers, administration members, neighbors, family members, or friends, I focus intensely on the question of whether what I've said is something I really want to be saying in a public forum.

If I write something I think better of later (this happens rarely) I go back and remove it.

My rule is not to 'trash' people here on ktm, or anywhere else, and I think I've kept to that rule (I know Carolyn would let me know if I needed to edit something out, so I have an informal editor as well).

I think I'll say, too, that while I've made some criticisms of Ms. Kahl's course here, I couch any criticism in expressions of respect and appreciation—which I'll say again, just to be clear! I respect Ms. Kahl, I know she's made great strides in just one year, I've had consistent help from her whenever I've asked for information about Christopher's work or for extra worksheets. I'm pulling for her. (The only reason I've finally used her name is that no one outside of Irvington will know who she is, and anyone inside Irvington couldn't not know.)

Everyone here has followed suit. If a Commenter were to write something harsh or disrespectful of Ms. Kahl, I would remove the comment.

So my rule is: courtesy and professional respect. Period.

With Mrs. Roth, the rules have changed.

Mrs. Roth has crossed many, many lines. She's affected my child so badly that both Ed and I are worrying about lasting trauma. By now regular readers are probably at least vaguely aware that Ed and I are thick-skinned when it comes to the ups and downs of raising kids. We aren't worriers.

For both of us to be concerned about lasting damage—for Ed to be telling me Christopher needs therapy—things have to be really bad.

Mrs. Roth gave Christopher his two grades of 'D' as a punishment. She did it in front of the class for the same reason teachers used to force children to sit in front of the class wearing a dunce cap, only her punishment wasn't about a child being stupid, it was about a child being lazy and bad.

On back to school night, she told us that she would be teaching our children good character in her class (IIRC, and I believe I do RC.)

'Your child will be a better person,' she said. Those are the exact words. I bristled when I heard them, and I remember.

He's having his character shaped up.

-- CatherineJohnson - 07 Dec 2005

Doug

important!

in the military Praise in public, correct in private is a rule???

Definitely?

I'm going to be using that.

-- CatherineJohnson - 07 Dec 2005

Ken—

Fantastic!

Thank you!

(The link about classroom management, I mean.)

I've been REALLY wanting to read up on that subject.

As a matter of fact, I'm ordering this book: Reluctant Disciplinarian: Advice on Classroom Management From a Softy who Became (Eventually) a Successful Teacher

-- CatherineJohnson - 07 Dec 2005

My conscience is bothering me, so I'll belabor this issue for one more comment.

I also have a principle that I should avoid talking about people's motives if I possibly can.

I developed this principle because I got so sick of reading endless political attacks, right, left, and center, that were shrieking diatribes about the evil motives of Whomever.

I've certainly done plenty of it myself, AND I think it's natural, normal, and important for human beings, who are social animals, to try to understand what makes their antagonists tick.

But I try not to do it at ktm because the fact is I don't know what makes other people tick. This falls into the knowing what you don't know category.

At the end of the day, do I know why radical constructivists do and say the things they do and say?

No. (Though I'm very interested, and I want to know.)

So.....back to Mrs. Roth.

In fact, I don't know her motives.

I do know what she said to Chris, and I know what she said to us on Back to School night.

I believe that the Ds were given as punishment for bad character.

I also believe she isn't competent to recognize good writing in a child who didn't have help from his parent. Her major complaint is that his 'Feature Story' is too short for a major research product.

That's an exact quote.

The assignment was to write a Feature Story (something I have done professionally); the paper came back with a D and a notation that it's short for a major research product.

I believe, but I don't know, that Mrs. Roth was meting out a punishment. I also believe, but don't know, that she was extending an open invitation to every member of the class to taunt him about his grade after class.

That is certainly what happened, and it's been going on for two days.

Last and probably least under the circumstances I'll say publicly that I believe Mrs. Roth is not competent to teach writing to 6th graders.

I know (this is a known-known) she is not teaching writing to my own 6th grader.

-- CatherineJohnson - 07 Dec 2005

last but not least.....

Ed was shocked to learn that I've written about Mrs. Roth using her name.

He thought I should take these Comments down at least until the situation is resolved.

For me, the situation is resolved.

Christopher will not be writing another paper for Mrs. Roth. The school can decide whatever it wishes; Ed's & my decision has been made.

-- CatherineJohnson - 07 Dec 2005

The quick takeaway is that praise is far more effective than discipline for controlling classroom behavior. If I remember correctly, in the DI classroom, they stive for something like a 5-1 praise to correction ratio.

-- KDeRosa - 07 Dec 2005

Susan

The Counter-Reform Movement.

Or, let's just skip straight to The Enlightenment.

You're too much!

I think I'll start calling myself a Font of Wisdom.

Misspelling done on purpose.

-- CatherineJohnson - 07 Dec 2005

KDeRosa

The quick takeaway is that praise is far more effective than discipline for controlling classroom behavior. If I remember correctly, in the DI classroom, they stive for something like a 5-1 praise to correction ratio.

I love it!

I have a show-offy story about this exact figure.

Years ago, when I was a Contributing Editor for New Woman Magazine (I mentioned writing feature stories for a living, right?) I did an article on Irving Gottman, the marriage expert in Seattle, I think.

His work wasn't well known at that time; for the general public he wasn't on the map.

I read through his book (I think he'd published maybe his first popular book).

What jumped out at me was Ken's figure.

Marriages that didn't break up no matter how much yelling and fighting there was were marriages in which there were 5 positives for each negative. (It may have been 3 to 1, but I think it was 5 to 1.)

A marriage could have huge amounts of strife, but if that 5 to 1 ratio was there, the couple made it.

Gottman hadn't really noticed that he'd figured out this amazing mathematical rule.

He'd put it in there without highlighting it; it was just another piece of data.

I jumped all over it.

My entire article was pegged to 5-to-1.

Here's the great thing.

From then on, Gottman's 5-to-1 discovery was the message he was conveying to the world. Every time I looked at the guy, he was talking about 5-to-1.

It was a case of a researcher being so close to his own work he hadn't even noticed a major insight he'd come up with.

-- CatherineJohnson - 07 Dec 2005

I think I'll start calling myself a Font of Wisdom.

Misspelling done on purpose.

But font = fount.

It's a good day when you can't even be wrong on purpose.

-- KDeRosa - 07 Dec 2005

"in the military Praise in public, correct in private is a rule???

"Definitely?"

There are certainly exceptions, but it's what I was taught while in ROTC and it's what my dad (a career military officer) told me.

The biggest exception is probably basic training, but that's an exercise in operant conditioning more than training. The experience of basic serves as a source of shared pain in the later military career, so the pain is a feature.

But for the real military? It's what is taught and it's what the good leaders do.

-- DougSundseth - 07 Dec 2005

Here's an even better, and more up to date, article on classroom management.

Managing Classroom Behavior from, where else, the Journal of Direct Instruction.

-- KDeRosa - 07 Dec 2005

And here's something Steinberg should have read before he wrote his book:

The reason the early grades are so critical is because that is where adults have the most influence over a student’s behavior. Thereafter, peers take on a more important role in a student’s behavior. Although the progression is fairly obvious, school personnel may not respond in time to prevent this negative spiral (i.e., behavior gets worse over time). Fortunately, this negative progression can be stopped. However, teachers must be ready and willing to set up their classrooms to stop the cycle. Teachers cannot wait. They must begin to take steps to consider how they are going to promote appropriate behavior and prevent management problems from the 1st day of class.

-- KDeRosa - 07 Dec 2005

And, you really have to read the contract on page 149 of the Managing Classroom behavior article. Compare and contrast it to Christopher's "Report Card Evaluation Contract to Improve My Grades."

I just noticed this. The DI contract is a real contract betwen student and teacher with both parties agreeing to do something (legally speaking, consideration). Christopher's "contract" isn't really a contract at all because he is the only one agreeing to do anything; the other party (implied), the teacher or school, hasn't agreed to do anything. If it were a contract it would be void for lack of consideration. In fact, it is merely a list or authoritarian rules that the student has agreed to follow and is not a contract in the legal sense. (All those years of law school have finaly paid off.)

-- KDeRosa - 07 Dec 2005

The reason the early grades are so critical is because that is where adults have the most influence over a student’s behavior. Thereafter, peers take on a more important role in a student’s behavior.

Right.

That's what Mike Feinberg of KIPP says; etc.

This is what Carolyn and I are up against (well, I guess me more than Carolyn, but her situation sounds just as difficult even without total peer obsession, interestingly).

-- CatherineJohnson - 08 Dec 2005

oh my gosh

a REAL contract between teacher and student????

I'm going to have to go ahead and just BELIEVE in ESP one of these days

All last week I was planning to write my response to the grade contract.

Then I didn't. I thought the reason I didn't was that I was maintaining impulse control, observing a cooling off period so I didn't just Go Nuts on paper.....

Then Ed got back, wrote his Epic Takedown about Mrs. Roth, and I told him he had to write the Grade Contract email, too, because he's way better at the genre than I am or than anyone else on the planet.

Then HE didn't write it.

So today, I was going to write it.

I didn't.

Now I know why.

I was waiting for Ken to come up with the PRECISE document I needed.

-- CatherineJohnson - 08 Dec 2005

re: font & fount

phooey

I don't want to be a font-slash-fount

I want to be a FONT of wisdom

I want to be wrong on purpose, for once

-- CatherineJohnson - 08 Dec 2005

Fortunately, this negative progression can be stopped.

wow

That is the exact question I've been wanting to ask Engelmann.

I knew he'd have either an answer or an approach (either one is better than one we've got now).....fantastic.

I can't believe you came up with a REAL contract.

I can't thank you enough (and yes I was thinking the same thing about law school paying off)

This is what I need

a real contract, as an example, plus the legal point that a 'contract' isn't a contract if there's only one party to it

This is wonderful.

THANK YOU

AND DOUG: YOU, TOO

this is gonna be fun

More Emails To The School!

-- CatherineJohnson - 08 Dec 2005

Oh, Ben is peer-obsessed too, didn't I mention it?

He writes lists of all his friends and adds his own name to the list just to beef up his numbers.

-- CarolynJohnston - 08 Dec 2005

Ed was saying this morning, We're going to be famous.

Famous all over town.

Irvington administrators are going to take one look at us and think: Let's Just Not Get Into It.

-- CatherineJohnson - 08 Dec 2005

The funny thing is, since Ed and I use different last names, it's entirely possible the two superintendents don't know that the Singapore Math course they're stomping on is taught by the wife of the guy who's been sitting in their offices demanding that certain personnel changes be made, certain transition plans be put in place, etc., etc, etc.

-- CatherineJohnson - 08 Dec 2005

addendum:

certain personnel changes have been made and certain transition plans have been put in place, albeit WITHOUT A G-D BUS TO TRANSPORT THE KIDS TO THEIR JOBS

-- CatherineJohnson - 08 Dec 2005

It's entirely possible they haven't seen Kitchen Table Math, either.

-- CatherineJohnson - 08 Dec 2005

Oh, Ben is peer-obsessed too, didn't I mention it?

He writes lists of all his friends and adds his own name to the list just to beef up his numbers.

good grief

Obviously BRAIN PERIODIZATION THEORY was right on the money

-- CatherineJohnson - 08 Dec 2005

The contract does not just give consideration to both sides. It is also explicit for the kids. I think a 12 year old of only average intelligence and with parents who had no academic background could read it and figure out what they needed to do.

Unlike the vague lines in Chris's contracts about preparing for class and studying effectively.

-- TracyW - 08 Dec 2005

Unlike the vague lines in Chris's contracts about preparing for class and studying effectively.

The whole thing was jaw-droppingly vague, punitive, and anxiety-provoking.

The only real message that comes through is: it's your fault.

You did something wrong.

If you'd done things right, you'd have better grades.

Sign here.

-- CatherineJohnson - 08 Dec 2005

wow

I just found the contract.

Incredible.

I'm going to print it out and send it with my letter saying I'm taking my signature back.

The funny thing is, one of the points I had been wanting to make was that I would be willing to sign a contract, and to have Christopher sign a contract, if his teachers (and administrators) signed one, too.

Not otherwise.

Now here it is.

-- CatherineJohnson - 08 Dec 2005

Here's another amazing factoid re classroom management. Brisk pacing is critical to engaging students:

Third, well-paced instruction keeps students engaged and, in turn, reduces behavior problems. Inappropriate behavior often occurs during down time when students are not occupied with productive tasks. Engelmann and Becker (1978) reported that when teachers maintained a pace of about 12 responses per minute, students answered correctly about 80% of the time and were off-task only 10% of the time. However, when teachers asked only four questions per minute, the students’ accuracy dropped to 30% and they were off-task about 70% of the time. Clearly, a brisk pace contributes to the effectiveness of instruction.

From The Components of Direct Instruction which is probably the best concise summary of DI I've found to date.

-- KDeRosa - 08 Dec 2005

Brisk pacing is critical to engaging students

To me, that's just obvious.

I learned that in our autism programs.

There's an entire field of research (a small one, but it's even got its own name, which I forget) on speed, pacing, and attention.

That's why the KUMON sheets are timed; it's to 'capture' or compel the children's full attention.

Actually, any writer knows this.

I'm sure deadlines are called deadlines because once you're under severe time pressure you focus and 'pull it out of the fire'—all you have to do is look at the language we use to describe these situations to know how things work.

I once had an editor tell me I had a 'guillotine deadline' now hanging over my head.

-- CatherineJohnson - 08 Dec 2005

Since when did common sense play any part in education?

-- KDeRosa - 08 Dec 2005

Ken—have you got all these things catalogued on your page??

I'm starting to add them to the Irvington page.

Also, I'm ready to move to Swarthmore and join you in starting a Direct Instruction charter school.

-- CatherineJohnson - 08 Dec 2005

I barely have them catalogued in my head at this point. I've read far too much this past month, its all a big blur.

-- KDeRosa - 08 Dec 2005

Also, I'm ready to move to Swarthmore and join you in starting a Direct Instruction charter school.

PA is very charter school friendly. All you need is a sugar daddy to get things off the ground. Then you pick your first location in a nice SES friendly area so your PSSA scores are in the top 5% of the state (which is easy to do) and they bring enough funding with them. Then you hire the DI people to tell you how to run the place academically. What's left besides fluff?

Just don't make the same mistakes that these clowns have made. Look how close they came to getting it right, and how bad they got it wrong.

-- KDeRosa - 08 Dec 2005

I'll go through and pull them out—I've got two of them logged on the Irvington page.

I'll get them on the Recommended reading page, too.

(I can drop them in on your page if you like—)

-- CatherineJohnson - 08 Dec 2005

OUR CURRICULUM

Our comprehensive curriculum will prepare all of our students to achieve the Pennsylvania Academic Standards with Project Based Learning activities that are collaborative, involve students in their community, and involve Multiple Intelligences as outline by Howard Gardner. The School is committed to small class sizes with a 10 to 1 student/teacher ratio (20 students in each class, one teacher, and one teacher assistant).

but here's what I really like:

Pods and Artists in Residence

THEY HAVE PODS IN RESIDENCE

-- CatherineJohnson - 08 Dec 2005

I WONDER HOW THEY PULLED THAT OFF?

-- CatherineJohnson - 08 Dec 2005

I liked:

We reviewed several primary and intermediate math programs, including Everyday Math, Houghton Mifflin and Connecting Math Concepts (SRA). We selected Investigations in Number, Space, and Data because of the opportunities it provides students for in depth exploration of math processes, concepts, and content. We believe that the program's validation of multiple ways of solving problems and sharing and expressing solutions is aligned with our commitment to respect the Multiple Intelligences within the classroom and the school community. The extended and contextualized approach to problem solving in Investigations will enable our teachers and students to plan for and participate in many arts infused and community related math projects, as detailed on the math, community, and arts integration chart.

So they actually looked at a good curriculum and then rejected it for an horrendous one to "enable our teachers and students to plan for and participate in many arts infused and community related math projects."

-- KDeRosa - 08 Dec 2005

Multiple Intelligences! Bleah!

-- CarolynJohnston - 08 Dec 2005

So they actually looked at a good curriculum and then rejected it for an horrendous one to "enable our teachers and students to plan for and participate in many arts infused and community related math projects."

We really do need to start handing out awards.

-- CatherineJohnson - 08 Dec 2005

Multiple intelligenges.

Bleah!

Bleah!

-- CatherineJohnson - 08 Dec 2005

"multiple intelligences" -- bleah! bleah! bleah!

have i mentioned that i reviewed _unschooled_mind_
ten years ago? --
http://members.aol.com/vlorbik/odc/gardner.html ?
probably. well, here it is again.

-- VlorbikDotCom - 09 Dec 2005

Hi V! Long time no see!

-- CarolynJohnston - 09 Dec 2005

WebLogForm
Title: Paul Miller and Rudbeckia Hirta on assessment
TopicType: WebLog
SubjectArea: CollegeMath, DirectInstruction
LogDate: 200512061215