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09 Dec 2005 - 16:01
So where did we leave things?
I think that's where we were.
further developments The Study Skills teacher has come to her senses. (Come to her senses or been told to come to her senses, more likely.) Christopher came home from school and reported that the Study Skills teacher had said to the class that she 'could tell' which children have to be reminded to do their homework. Then she named four children, all of them boys. Christopher was one. Next she said she could tell which children did not have to be reminded to do their homework. She named a girl (who promptly said, 'Yes, I do have to be reminded to do my homework.') So then it was back to the Email Factory. Writing emails to the school is becoming a full-time job. I don't like writing emails to the school. I certainly don't like writing emails to the school on an hourly basis. But I'll do it if they keep this up. (My friend M. tells me she knows moms who send hostile emails to the school every day. I believe it.) Christopher never has to be reminded to do his homework. He always does his homework; he likes to do his homework. He's done his homework without being reminded since he was a tiny boy. He has to be reminded to do my homework. He has to be bludgeoned to do my homework. He is, however, devoted to doing the school's homework. So I sent an email, the tone and content of which I would characterize as terse, to the Study Skills teacher, copying it to the principal, to Ed, etc., etc. I closed with the line, "Another item to add to tomorrow’s expanding agenda." I heard back promptly. Chris has always been a wonderful student. She was 'half teasing' when she said he has to be reminded to do his homework. She is 'puzzled' and 'surprised' by his recent lack of preparation. She 'meant no harm,' and she is 'concerned.' Fine. This isn't what I would call an apology, as in I'm sorry I hung up on you, it was rude and unprofessional, it won't happen again; and it's simply a softer version of the your defective child theme, but fine. She can be taken off the agenda, because there's already too much stuff on there. Of course, we are going to be talking about the Grade Contract. We are going to be talking about the punitive, child-blaming nature of the school's educational philosophy. I know I said we'd be concrete and specific, but it turns out we're going to be abstract and theoretical. Then we'll be concrete and specific. The highly abstract and theoretical point we'll be making from now on is:
If Christopher is getting Ds on essays, it's the school's fault. If Christopher is getting Ds on math tests, it's the school's fault. If Christopher is coming to class without his freaking Contract To Improve My Grades, it's the school's fault.
I know J D has debriefed many an ex-teacher who thinks parents are crazy. I know, because I've debriefed them myself. I know our school administrators are going to attempt to think we're crazy. But we're both writers, and we're both educators, or have been. Educators treat educators and writers differently. They just do. We've gone into situations like this before, and we've made our point. One last thing. We've been at this for 15 years. You have to think longterm, not short-term. (I realize I say this as a person who stinks at strategy.) We won't Change Things tomorrow. We don't have to. We'll get what we need for Christopher, or, at a minimum, we'll be one step down the path toward getting what we need for Christopher. (Pupil personnel is the next stop; then an Advocate, etc.) Meanwhile the school will know they have two highly educated parents demanding that the school perform systematic formative assessment and teach students to mastery. This concept is not unknown to American educators, no matter how much edu-blah-blah they've been forced to regurgitate for their Ed.D.'s. We're tapping into thoughts and ideas they already have, and we're talking about techniques some of their teachers are already using. There are teachers at the Irvington Middle School who are using formative assessment. The administrators know this. I've learned over the years that taking a radical stance 'works.' At least, it works for us. Being 'unreasonable' on purpose shakes things up. It refuses to play the game of I-have-to-be-realistic, when what I-have-to-be-realistic means is I don't have to teach your child. What we're confronting now is the regular-ed version of I-have-to-be-realistic. The regular ed version is Your child is responsible for his grades. or, alternatively, 'I am concerned.' (See email from Study Skills teacher, above.) When I taught writing, I had the students go through each and every sentence in an essay and answer the question, 'What is the underlying assumption?' What is unspoken because it goes without saying? The underlying assumptions, in each and every conversation parents hold with Irvington Middle School personnel, are: 1) My child is responsible for his grades. 2) My child's character is not what it should be. ('Your child will be a better person.') We reject both assumptions, and we'll say so. Then we'll keep right on on saying it.
the bell curve This is rich. My friend M. just told me that someone actually came into her son's math class, drew them a bell curve on the board, and explained to them that a grade of 'C' is average and normal, so they shouldn't expect to get As. Just a few children can get As. Not everyone. Christopher says this didn't happen in his class, but that all the teachers tell them 'C' is average. They're supposed to be happy to be average; that's the message. That explains a lot. Christopher has been constantly telling us that 'C' is average and good. We've been very unhappy with his recent Cs and Ds, and his answer is 'C is average, it's a good grade.' Obviously there's a systematic effort underway at the school to convince the 6th graders that their Cs are OK. M. said, 'How can they tell these kids C is average and then have them sign a contract promising not to be average?' Good question. She also told her son, who just got a C on his math test, 'You're not average.' Meanwhile I'm learning that the high school won't let kids into various courses if they do have Cs, which means the middle school is handing out Cs left and right, Cs that will track them into lower level courses in high school, without informing the parents that this is the case. That's another agenda item for the Big Meeting. We want a precise list of all high school courses and tracks, the requirements for being admitted to AP courses and tracks, and the school's plan for making sure Christopher is prepared to enter these courses and tracks and succeed.
I'm certain the new superintendent didn't contemplate the possible consequences of creating this mission statement. Too bad. That's the mission and we're holding them to it.
my contract to improve Christopher's grades
a Grade Contract that makes sense
the book
Grade Contract for married people
climb down
Smartest Tractor saves the day
Back to main page.
Please consider registering as a regular user.
Look here for syntax help.
But we're both writers, and we're both educators, or have been. Educators treat educators and writers differently. They just do. Is this true? Why do they? And why do they treat me and Bernie, with our PhDs in math, like we're a couple of yutzes? -- CarolynJohnston - 09 Dec 2005
Is it because we dress funny? -- CarolynJohnston - 09 Dec 2005
Is it because we dress funny? yes -- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2005
i'm joking We've noticed this for years, and other professors have said the same thing. It may be the 'professor' thing.....although I don't generally get treated like a yutz......(though apparently I do get hung up on) I'm sure this is true. 'Professors' and 'writers' are in a different category. -- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2005
Yutz? No comprende, but perhaps ~morons? FWIW, I suspect that many teachers/administrators/public school yobbos are convinced that they're a highly educated, highly educated lot (not being sarcastic). I think they honestly believe that they're more intelligent and better informed than most parents, and they probably think that Ph. Ds are ivory tower types who don't understand the real world. I've never had to deal with a public school, only private ones, but I've found that aggressiveness often pays off. This was rather difficult for me, since my culture considers aggressiveness to be vulgar, but c'est la vie. -- VerghisKoshi - 09 Dec 2005
Yutz? No comprende, but perhaps ~morons? Yutz is a sniglet, it sounds like what it means. Sort of harmless, feckless, a bit stupid in the ways that count. What culture do you hail from? Aggressiveness is vulgar, as far as I'm concerned. -- CarolynJohnston - 09 Dec 2005
nebbish : A haplessly, sadly unfortunate and innocuous being, kind of a cross between a poor soul and a sad sack. Along with schlemiel and schlimazl (and the similar Yiddish words schlump, zhlub, schnook, schmendrick, schmo, nayfish, yutz ...), a jerk. As Leo Rosten explains, the schlemiel trips and knocks down the schlimazl, and the nebbish repairs the schlimazl's glasses. --so sez
http://f2.org/humour/language/oddwords.html
... so if actual yiddish, then not a "sniglet".
in any case, to my ear, it also doesn't sound
like what it means. few things do.
even "meow" is kind of pushing it. -- VlorbikDotCom - 09 Dec 2005
Verghis What's your culture? Yes, aggressiveness can pay off big-time, especially when it's mixed with a willingness to go away once you get what you want. Of course, we're not going away. On the subject of Mrs. Roth, however, we'll be happy to. All they need to do to close the chapter on that one is change Christopher's grades & move him to a different class. Easy. -- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2005
I beg to differ. Most yiddish words are sniglets. -- CarolynJohnston - 09 Dec 2005
Our experience with Ph.D.s is that we have higher rank, which we do. Our professor friends who had kids in chi-chi private schools in L.A. saw this all the time. You'd have these wealthy Hollywood parents, and the administrators saw them as Not That Smart, or whatever. The minute a UCLA professor started talking, there was a different attitude. -- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2005
The other thing is that, within academia, the Ed.D. is held in low regard. When you spend years of your life earning an Ed.D. inside an institution that thinks Ph.D.s are the real thing and your degree is pretend, it probably stays with you. -- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2005
FWIW, I suspect that many teachers/administrators/public school yobbos are convinced that they're a highly educated, highly educated lot (not being sarcastic). A few years ago, I read about a study in which they gave subjects a test and asked them how well they did. People who did very well tended to underestimate their abilities, while people who did poorly tended to overestimate. Then, they let the subjects grade a bunch of the tests. The people who did well then were able to revise their estimates to match their performance very well. The people who did poorly didn't change their assessment of themselves. Given what I know about the average GRE scores for education majors in college (they were the lowest except for psychology the year I took the GREs), I think they generally belong in the "low achiever" group. I guess my point here is that the administrators and teachers are unlikely to change their assessment of how smart they are (and how dumb you must be to disagree), no matter what you show or tell them. -- StephanieO - 09 Dec 2005
"I guess my point here is that the administrators and teachers are unlikely to change their assessment of how smart they are (and how dumb you must be to disagree), no matter what you show or tell them." Got it in one. Plus, since you're not actually paying them money, they don't feel they have to listen to you. "...earning an Ed.D." Hmm, I always thought the test was, how low could they set the bar and yet have you squeeze under it :-) "What culture do you hail from?" I'm South Indian. -- VerghisKoshi - 09 Dec 2005
The people who did well then were able to revise their estimates to match their performance very well. The people who did poorly didn't change their assessment of themselves. oh my gosh i tend to believe that -- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2005
the administrators and teachers are unlikely to change their assessment of how smart they are (and how dumb you must be to disagree), no matter what you show or tell them I haven't found that to be true, at least in the various schools I've been around. I don't remember ever having a problem with being perceived as intelligent. Our problems have always been over services, policies, etc. -- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2005
Plus, since you're not actually paying them money, they don't feel they have to listen to you. Definitely not the case around here. I MUST post Carolyn's 'Irvington parent' observation. It was hilarious. Since I'm not going to get to it this instant, let me just say that a LARGE PART of the job description for Irvington administrators is dealing with the parents. -- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2005
I've asked myself more than once, Would I want to be dealing with Irvington parents? They're (we're) scary. -- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2005
"What culture do you hail from?" I'm South Indian. Oh! Interesting. I'm very curious about India & Indian culture (and very ignorant—sorry). How much of Indian culture is a mixture/blend of British & native Indian culture? Does the feeling that aggression is vulgar come from the British strain, from the Indian strain or strains, or from both? -- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2005
_"Plus, since you're not actually paying them money, they don't feel they have to listen to you. Definitely not the case around here. "_ With a private school, they know that you can stop paying them; not so with a public school. You can certainly make life hard for them, but in the end your tax money goes to the district and thence to the schools. It takes quite a bit before any teacher's in danger of losing his (or her) job, unlike the private school case. Therefore, I'd argue that public schools will be less responsive to you. To say "...they don't feel they have to listen to you" was probably putting it too strongly. As for the "aggression is vulgar" feeling, I suspect I got it from both; but I also went to a boarding school, which teaches you to stand up for yourself in a hurry. -- VerghisKoshi - 09 Dec 2005
It takes quite a bit before any teacher's in danger of losing his (or her) job, unlike the private school case. Therefore, I'd argue that public schools will be less responsive to you. I'm sure they're less responsive, but parents can make life hell for administrators & teachers, and they do. Remember what J D said about teachers quitting because of parents. What you have to remember with parents is that you're dealing with the most primal emotion we have (IMO). You're dealing with people's drive to protect their kids. I grew up on a farm, and the ONE LESSON THAT IS DRILLED INTO YOUR HEAD FROM DAY ONE IS DON'T MESS WITH THE BABIES. -- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2005
We were told, over and over and over again, "Mother animals are dangerous." My mom would always say that meaningfully, too. Meaningfully as in, 'I'm a mother animal myself, SO I KNOW.' -- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2005
How much of Indian culture is a mixture/blend of British & native Indian culture? Does the feeling that aggression is vulgar come from the British strain, from the Indian strain or strains, or from both? This can be an intra-Indian issue. I'm not Indian, but have had some exposure to Indian culture during stints in the Financial Services and Nuclear Power Industries. While it's of course an over-generalization, South Indians (like from Bangalore) at times find North Indians (Delhi) or Sikhs to be over aggressive in the business world. -- BenCalvin - 09 Dec 2005
While it's of course an over-generalization, South Indians (like from Bangalore) at times find North Indians (Delhi) or Sikhs to be over aggressive in the business world. Oh that's interesting. Yes, I assumed there are all kinds of regional differences I don't know about. -- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2005
climb down
So where did we leave things?
- Superintendents bigfooting Singapore Math class
- Mrs. Roth distributing Ds and public shamings
- Study skills teacher calling to berate hapless parent
- Study skills teacher hanging up on hapless parent
- Big Meeting with principal cancelled due to snow
I think that's where we were.
further developments The Study Skills teacher has come to her senses. (Come to her senses or been told to come to her senses, more likely.) Christopher came home from school and reported that the Study Skills teacher had said to the class that she 'could tell' which children have to be reminded to do their homework. Then she named four children, all of them boys. Christopher was one. Next she said she could tell which children did not have to be reminded to do their homework. She named a girl (who promptly said, 'Yes, I do have to be reminded to do my homework.') So then it was back to the Email Factory. Writing emails to the school is becoming a full-time job. I don't like writing emails to the school. I certainly don't like writing emails to the school on an hourly basis. But I'll do it if they keep this up. (My friend M. tells me she knows moms who send hostile emails to the school every day. I believe it.) Christopher never has to be reminded to do his homework. He always does his homework; he likes to do his homework. He's done his homework without being reminded since he was a tiny boy. He has to be reminded to do my homework. He has to be bludgeoned to do my homework. He is, however, devoted to doing the school's homework. So I sent an email, the tone and content of which I would characterize as terse, to the Study Skills teacher, copying it to the principal, to Ed, etc., etc. I closed with the line, "Another item to add to tomorrow’s expanding agenda." I heard back promptly. Chris has always been a wonderful student. She was 'half teasing' when she said he has to be reminded to do his homework. She is 'puzzled' and 'surprised' by his recent lack of preparation. She 'meant no harm,' and she is 'concerned.' Fine. This isn't what I would call an apology, as in I'm sorry I hung up on you, it was rude and unprofessional, it won't happen again; and it's simply a softer version of the your defective child theme, but fine. She can be taken off the agenda, because there's already too much stuff on there. Of course, we are going to be talking about the Grade Contract. We are going to be talking about the punitive, child-blaming nature of the school's educational philosophy. I know I said we'd be concrete and specific, but it turns out we're going to be abstract and theoretical. Then we'll be concrete and specific. The highly abstract and theoretical point we'll be making from now on is:
If Christopher is getting Ds on essays, it's the school's fault. If Christopher is getting Ds on math tests, it's the school's fault. If Christopher is coming to class without his freaking Contract To Improve My Grades, it's the school's fault.
I know J D has debriefed many an ex-teacher who thinks parents are crazy. I know, because I've debriefed them myself. I know our school administrators are going to attempt to think we're crazy. But we're both writers, and we're both educators, or have been. Educators treat educators and writers differently. They just do. We've gone into situations like this before, and we've made our point. One last thing. We've been at this for 15 years. You have to think longterm, not short-term. (I realize I say this as a person who stinks at strategy.) We won't Change Things tomorrow. We don't have to. We'll get what we need for Christopher, or, at a minimum, we'll be one step down the path toward getting what we need for Christopher. (Pupil personnel is the next stop; then an Advocate, etc.) Meanwhile the school will know they have two highly educated parents demanding that the school perform systematic formative assessment and teach students to mastery. This concept is not unknown to American educators, no matter how much edu-blah-blah they've been forced to regurgitate for their Ed.D.'s. We're tapping into thoughts and ideas they already have, and we're talking about techniques some of their teachers are already using. There are teachers at the Irvington Middle School who are using formative assessment. The administrators know this. I've learned over the years that taking a radical stance 'works.' At least, it works for us. Being 'unreasonable' on purpose shakes things up. It refuses to play the game of I-have-to-be-realistic, when what I-have-to-be-realistic means is I don't have to teach your child. What we're confronting now is the regular-ed version of I-have-to-be-realistic. The regular ed version is Your child is responsible for his grades. or, alternatively, 'I am concerned.' (See email from Study Skills teacher, above.) When I taught writing, I had the students go through each and every sentence in an essay and answer the question, 'What is the underlying assumption?' What is unspoken because it goes without saying? The underlying assumptions, in each and every conversation parents hold with Irvington Middle School personnel, are: 1) My child is responsible for his grades. 2) My child's character is not what it should be. ('Your child will be a better person.') We reject both assumptions, and we'll say so. Then we'll keep right on on saying it.
the bell curve This is rich. My friend M. just told me that someone actually came into her son's math class, drew them a bell curve on the board, and explained to them that a grade of 'C' is average and normal, so they shouldn't expect to get As. Just a few children can get As. Not everyone. Christopher says this didn't happen in his class, but that all the teachers tell them 'C' is average. They're supposed to be happy to be average; that's the message. That explains a lot. Christopher has been constantly telling us that 'C' is average and good. We've been very unhappy with his recent Cs and Ds, and his answer is 'C is average, it's a good grade.' Obviously there's a systematic effort underway at the school to convince the 6th graders that their Cs are OK. M. said, 'How can they tell these kids C is average and then have them sign a contract promising not to be average?' Good question. She also told her son, who just got a C on his math test, 'You're not average.' Meanwhile I'm learning that the high school won't let kids into various courses if they do have Cs, which means the middle school is handing out Cs left and right, Cs that will track them into lower level courses in high school, without informing the parents that this is the case. That's another agenda item for the Big Meeting. We want a precise list of all high school courses and tracks, the requirements for being admitted to AP courses and tracks, and the school's plan for making sure Christopher is prepared to enter these courses and tracks and succeed.
"The mission of the Irvington School District is to create a challenging and supportive learning environment in which each student attains his or her highest potential for academic achievement, critical thinking and life-long learning."
I'm certain the new superintendent didn't contemplate the possible consequences of creating this mission statement. Too bad. That's the mission and we're holding them to it.
my contract to improve Christopher's grades
a Grade Contract that makes sense
the book
Grade Contract for married people
climb down
Smartest Tractor saves the day
Back to main page.
Comments
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Look here for syntax help.
But we're both writers, and we're both educators, or have been. Educators treat educators and writers differently. They just do. Is this true? Why do they? And why do they treat me and Bernie, with our PhDs in math, like we're a couple of yutzes? -- CarolynJohnston - 09 Dec 2005
Is it because we dress funny? -- CarolynJohnston - 09 Dec 2005
Is it because we dress funny? yes -- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2005
i'm joking We've noticed this for years, and other professors have said the same thing. It may be the 'professor' thing.....although I don't generally get treated like a yutz......(though apparently I do get hung up on) I'm sure this is true. 'Professors' and 'writers' are in a different category. -- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2005
Yutz? No comprende, but perhaps ~morons? FWIW, I suspect that many teachers/administrators/public school yobbos are convinced that they're a highly educated, highly educated lot (not being sarcastic). I think they honestly believe that they're more intelligent and better informed than most parents, and they probably think that Ph. Ds are ivory tower types who don't understand the real world. I've never had to deal with a public school, only private ones, but I've found that aggressiveness often pays off. This was rather difficult for me, since my culture considers aggressiveness to be vulgar, but c'est la vie. -- VerghisKoshi - 09 Dec 2005
Yutz? No comprende, but perhaps ~morons? Yutz is a sniglet, it sounds like what it means. Sort of harmless, feckless, a bit stupid in the ways that count. What culture do you hail from? Aggressiveness is vulgar, as far as I'm concerned. -- CarolynJohnston - 09 Dec 2005
nebbish : A haplessly, sadly unfortunate and innocuous being, kind of a cross between a poor soul and a sad sack. Along with schlemiel and schlimazl (and the similar Yiddish words schlump, zhlub, schnook, schmendrick, schmo, nayfish, yutz ...), a jerk. As Leo Rosten explains, the schlemiel trips and knocks down the schlimazl, and the nebbish repairs the schlimazl's glasses. --so sez
http://f2.org/humour/language/oddwords.html
... so if actual yiddish, then not a "sniglet".
in any case, to my ear, it also doesn't sound
like what it means. few things do.
even "meow" is kind of pushing it. -- VlorbikDotCom - 09 Dec 2005
Verghis What's your culture? Yes, aggressiveness can pay off big-time, especially when it's mixed with a willingness to go away once you get what you want. Of course, we're not going away. On the subject of Mrs. Roth, however, we'll be happy to. All they need to do to close the chapter on that one is change Christopher's grades & move him to a different class. Easy. -- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2005
I beg to differ. Most yiddish words are sniglets. -- CarolynJohnston - 09 Dec 2005
Our experience with Ph.D.s is that we have higher rank, which we do. Our professor friends who had kids in chi-chi private schools in L.A. saw this all the time. You'd have these wealthy Hollywood parents, and the administrators saw them as Not That Smart, or whatever. The minute a UCLA professor started talking, there was a different attitude. -- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2005
The other thing is that, within academia, the Ed.D. is held in low regard. When you spend years of your life earning an Ed.D. inside an institution that thinks Ph.D.s are the real thing and your degree is pretend, it probably stays with you. -- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2005
FWIW, I suspect that many teachers/administrators/public school yobbos are convinced that they're a highly educated, highly educated lot (not being sarcastic). A few years ago, I read about a study in which they gave subjects a test and asked them how well they did. People who did very well tended to underestimate their abilities, while people who did poorly tended to overestimate. Then, they let the subjects grade a bunch of the tests. The people who did well then were able to revise their estimates to match their performance very well. The people who did poorly didn't change their assessment of themselves. Given what I know about the average GRE scores for education majors in college (they were the lowest except for psychology the year I took the GREs), I think they generally belong in the "low achiever" group. I guess my point here is that the administrators and teachers are unlikely to change their assessment of how smart they are (and how dumb you must be to disagree), no matter what you show or tell them. -- StephanieO - 09 Dec 2005
"I guess my point here is that the administrators and teachers are unlikely to change their assessment of how smart they are (and how dumb you must be to disagree), no matter what you show or tell them." Got it in one. Plus, since you're not actually paying them money, they don't feel they have to listen to you. "...earning an Ed.D." Hmm, I always thought the test was, how low could they set the bar and yet have you squeeze under it :-) "What culture do you hail from?" I'm South Indian. -- VerghisKoshi - 09 Dec 2005
The people who did well then were able to revise their estimates to match their performance very well. The people who did poorly didn't change their assessment of themselves. oh my gosh i tend to believe that -- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2005
the administrators and teachers are unlikely to change their assessment of how smart they are (and how dumb you must be to disagree), no matter what you show or tell them I haven't found that to be true, at least in the various schools I've been around. I don't remember ever having a problem with being perceived as intelligent. Our problems have always been over services, policies, etc. -- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2005
Plus, since you're not actually paying them money, they don't feel they have to listen to you. Definitely not the case around here. I MUST post Carolyn's 'Irvington parent' observation. It was hilarious. Since I'm not going to get to it this instant, let me just say that a LARGE PART of the job description for Irvington administrators is dealing with the parents. -- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2005
I've asked myself more than once, Would I want to be dealing with Irvington parents? They're (we're) scary. -- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2005
"What culture do you hail from?" I'm South Indian. Oh! Interesting. I'm very curious about India & Indian culture (and very ignorant—sorry). How much of Indian culture is a mixture/blend of British & native Indian culture? Does the feeling that aggression is vulgar come from the British strain, from the Indian strain or strains, or from both? -- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2005
_"Plus, since you're not actually paying them money, they don't feel they have to listen to you. Definitely not the case around here. "_ With a private school, they know that you can stop paying them; not so with a public school. You can certainly make life hard for them, but in the end your tax money goes to the district and thence to the schools. It takes quite a bit before any teacher's in danger of losing his (or her) job, unlike the private school case. Therefore, I'd argue that public schools will be less responsive to you. To say "...they don't feel they have to listen to you" was probably putting it too strongly. As for the "aggression is vulgar" feeling, I suspect I got it from both; but I also went to a boarding school, which teaches you to stand up for yourself in a hurry. -- VerghisKoshi - 09 Dec 2005
It takes quite a bit before any teacher's in danger of losing his (or her) job, unlike the private school case. Therefore, I'd argue that public schools will be less responsive to you. I'm sure they're less responsive, but parents can make life hell for administrators & teachers, and they do. Remember what J D said about teachers quitting because of parents. What you have to remember with parents is that you're dealing with the most primal emotion we have (IMO). You're dealing with people's drive to protect their kids. I grew up on a farm, and the ONE LESSON THAT IS DRILLED INTO YOUR HEAD FROM DAY ONE IS DON'T MESS WITH THE BABIES. -- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2005
We were told, over and over and over again, "Mother animals are dangerous." My mom would always say that meaningfully, too. Meaningfully as in, 'I'm a mother animal myself, SO I KNOW.' -- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2005
How much of Indian culture is a mixture/blend of British & native Indian culture? Does the feeling that aggression is vulgar come from the British strain, from the Indian strain or strains, or from both? This can be an intra-Indian issue. I'm not Indian, but have had some exposure to Indian culture during stints in the Financial Services and Nuclear Power Industries. While it's of course an over-generalization, South Indians (like from Bangalore) at times find North Indians (Delhi) or Sikhs to be over aggressive in the business world. -- BenCalvin - 09 Dec 2005
While it's of course an over-generalization, South Indians (like from Bangalore) at times find North Indians (Delhi) or Sikhs to be over aggressive in the business world. Oh that's interesting. Yes, I assumed there are all kinds of regional differences I don't know about. -- CatherineJohnson - 09 Dec 2005
| WebLogForm | |
|---|---|
| Title: | climb down |
| TopicType: | WebLog |
| SubjectArea: | IrvingtonMath, IrvingtonSchools, MiddleSchoolMath, TeachersTeachingKids |
| LogDate: | 200512091100 |