KTM User Pages
Barry's post on the CorePlus curriculum.
see also (or return to): TalkingPointsDiscussionPage
A sampling of comments that inspired this page: How do you discuss these problems without overwhelming the person you're talking to? You want to do a brain dump or a mind meld, but it just can't happen.
- SteveH I truly believe that I totally need a way to talk to parents about the math programs. I am an engineer by training, so I tend to want to give as much info as possible. And I tend to talk about it way too much. Most elementary school parents realize instinctively that Everyday Math is not good for their children. But, because of all the propaganda, they think, "I must be wrong and they know what they are doing." I wish I had some well constructed short examples or evidence that would convince them they need to do something for their children.
- AnneDwyer 'Math' parents take one look at the stuff and reject it. Everyone else is either confused, or actively supportive, or defensively supportive. (Too long to go into at the moment.) I'll have to give this some thought, but the thing that works best for me is drawing the comparison to Singapore Math. At least one KTM commenter has said that all anyone needs to see is a comparison of a fuzzy-math problem side by side with a Singapore problem. I continually push the 'global-world-economy' angle.
- CatherineJohnson As far as Anne's problem of succinctly stating what are the problems with Everyday Mathematics and other bad programs, it's good to have sound bites prepared. I like to quote the blurb from the EM Teacher's Reference manual how long division isn't worth the effort to teach because of the advent of calculators. That's a good ice breaker.
- BarryGarelick I have a friend that I work with who tells me that when he was working in DC, everyone was insanely busy, and people would have 'elevator conversations' with people they needed to convince of something; that generally your only chance to convince them of your point of view was during the 45-second-long elevator ride down from the 20th floor. That's what we need to work up; some elevator conversations about fuzzy math.
- CarolynJohnston KtmGuest (password: guest) when prompted.
Please consider registering as a regular user.
Look here for syntax help.
The comment about DC is true; that's where I work. Get to the point fast. Have sound bites at the ready. Have examples. Lead with a headline that's an attention grabber: Kids aren't taught how to add, subtract, multiply or divide, they can't add fractions, standardized tests are so dumbed down they even allow kids to use calculators, and the number of students taking remedial math in college is increasing. And remedial math in college no longer means algebra,it means 7th grade math. That's your opener. Sure it's exaggerated but not by much. And they're listening. -- BarryGarelick - 09 Jul 2005
Barry--Do you want to move your stuff over to the page Carolyn set up? Or move Carolyn's stuff over here? Or have links to each page? For now I'm going to put links in. -- CatherineJohnson - 09 Jul 2005
The 'elevator comments' also work well at the store and over the backyard fence. Like Steve said earlier, you have to be careful not to overwhelm or appear to be a zealot of some sort. I try to use as much common sense in my comments as possible. Also, a reminder of where their kids are going schoolwise in the years to come sometimes helps to snap them out of it a bit. -- SusanS - 09 Jul 2005
Also, a reminder of where their kids are going schoolwise in the years to come sometimes helps to snap them out of it a bit. I'm dittoing that. Now that you've put it this way, I realize this is probably the one talking point I've had success with myself. As a matter of fact, it was this exact point that galvanized me into action. I had been living day to day, putting out fires (we've got a whole lot of fires around here) and I hadn't thought about the 'near future'--near future meaning middle school and high school. Especially given our family situation I think more about the far future: I actually think about the fact that I will die and leave behind two handicapped children, as well as one typical child who will then carry all of the responsibility for his brothers, at least once a day. Well....that's the far future, let's hope. And spending my time thinking about the far future was blinding me to what was going to happen to a Phase 3 Christopher once he hit middle school & high school. Wickelgren got me focused on that, and basically changed my life, and Christopher's. That's not putting it too strongly, either. -- CatherineJohnson - 09 Jul 2005
Good point, Susan. Thank you. -- CatherineJohnson - 09 Jul 2005
The KIPP Academy comparison is particularly galling, because 80% of KIPP 8th graders are taking and passing the New York state Regents A exam, which is required to graduate high school. Only 40% of Irvington 8th graders are prepared to take and pass the Regents. KIPP spends $9600 per pupil; Irvington spends $18,000. KIPP's pupils are all underprivileged urban kids; Irvington pupils are overprivileged suburban. I say there's a problem here. But when I bring this up to parents they look at me like I'm from Mars. -- CatherineJohnson - 09 Jul 2005
Ethnic makeup: 54 percent Latino, 46 percent black
Average class size: 31
Per-pupil expenditure (projected for 2004-05): $9,614; 96 percent from federal/state sources, 4 percent from private sources
Average teacher salary: $45,000, not counting summer-school stipend and overtime
Test scores: More than 80 percent of students score at or above grade level in math, and 73 percent in reading, on the CTB
Source: KIPP Academy
Charter Network Seeks a Foothold in Washington State
-- CatherineJohnson - 09 Jul 2005
I just had an idea. Why don't we use this page as a discussion forum, and collect the points and ideas that emerge on TalkingPointsDiscussionPage. I can keep that page formatted and scannable. Does that sound good? -- CatherineJohnson - 09 Jul 2005
Sounds good to me -- actually I created both of these pages, and now I realize I split the discussions, but what the heck. One thing about a wiki is that you can always reorganize the material later if you want. But for now, we're brainstorming, and we'll just let it flow. -- CarolynJohnston - 09 Jul 2005 Back to: Main Page.